M60 F54
Is CEO’s sex 354 times better?
October 02 2017
Comments
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RHP User
8 years ago
Very very confused. What has class mobility got to do with sex. Did anyone ever link the two? - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
8 years ago
I think the sex bit is only a tongue in cheek addition. The rest is simply about income inequality, and the myths that working hard can make you super rich (working hard can make you well off, but not super rich, you have to be extremely lucky through contacts or birth or super-invention with world marketing etc to reach that level). Another myth in society is the "trickle down effect". Politicians use this to back up their arguments for subsidising giant businesses, that such amassed wealth of a few has to result in better conditions and employment for those working below them. In reality, this has turned out to be much less the case. The comment on personal value to society is where the sex/manhood comment comes from. Yes, CEOs etc have much responsibility, and perhaps workload, but at best, even if their company or companies fail due to poor management (ie nothing illegal), they are hardly going to risk ending up on the streets no matter what happens. So the question remains, how does society benefit 350x more from their working hours than the ordinary labourer? Even politicians are paid piss poor COMPARED with big business heads in the private sector. I remember during the GFC, CEO's of big business in America, were criticised for still flying to government meetings in their private jets to ask for bailout money for their desperate companies...
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RHP User
8 years ago
Quoting 'lovebitten' Very very confused. What has class mobility got to do with sex. Did anyone ever link the two? - Posted from rhpmobile It speaks to how people are being f@cked every which way* by the cosy deals done by and between company boards, executive management, institutional investors, and the big four account/audit/advice firms. (* In their capacities as employees, as consumers, as shareholders, and as taxpayers). Many people have a sense something's not quite working as they've been assured it would (which is that if you just work hard and trust your business and political leaders, they'd take care of you and everything will turn out just fine). Too few people are financially and politically literate, alert, and/or interested to pay attention to available information. 354:1 has occurred precisely because people have permitted it to occur. I'm f@cked if I know why ! There are better and smarter ways enterprises may be operated. Sadly many factors (including such things as inattentiveness, incompetence, lack of foresight, pride, greed etc etc etc) contribute to preposterous (even diabolical) incentivisation and remuneration becoming commonplace in large businesses. Greater transparency, scrutiny, and accountability is required to reduce conflicts of interest and achieve objectively reasonable balance. Regulatory efforts to achieve such aims are resisted for reasons of cost and competition. You can be sure the exercise has been and will be a constantly evolving process. Currently it seems G20 governments are vying hard to compete in a dutch auction of company tax rates, workers' wages and conditions, etc in order to attract investment and win business away from each other and from the developing nations. I think this is aiming to the lowest common denominator (ie rather than encourage and assist developing nations to raise wages, working conditions and thereby living standards and demand for goods and services, they are instead lowering wages and working conditions in the developed nations whilst simultaneously publicly and privately borrowing heavily to maintain living standards and levels of legislated government services).
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RHP User
8 years ago
it's also no accident that the rich and powerful perpetuate the myth that 'anyone can make it to the top', you just have to work hard enough, be smart enough, blah blah blah. Most of them know that it's bullshit as well, but if you keep people thinking as individuals who are in competition with each other for everything, and that poor people / migrants etc. don't 'deserve' things because they are lazy, stupid, evil etc., then you keep the population divided and at each others' throats and it is much easier to control that way. You see this all the time in the tactics that politicians use as well - particularly the conservatives. Divide and conquer, and we fall for it all the time.
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RHP User
8 years ago
Quoting 'ontology' Too few people are financially and politically literate, alert, and/or interested to pay attention to available information. not wholly an accident. A population without knowledge and critical thinking skills is much easier to manipulate and control. Why do you think conservative politicians love to rip $ out of public schools and put it into private schools - in their view only the 'elite' deserve a proper education.
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RHP User
8 years ago
Bear with me - this following will address the topic at hand... Firstly, in the interest of balance and an attempt to demonstrate some objectivity, I think it important to note it is quite incorrect to characterise private schools and their students as being wealthy and/or 'elite'. Certainly, whilst some are wealthy, many are far from wealthy, and far from elite. It also is worthwhile to note that whilst ever increasing sums of money have been poured into Australia's education system, comparison of the measured outcomes of our education system (with similar nations' education systems eg OECD) have not kept pace. It is entirely reasonable for parents and taxpayers to seek and obtain valuable for the money they spend (on education or any other goods/services they may purchase). If the enacted education policy establishes payment of a baseline figure per student for all schools (public and private), then applies needs-based loadings on top of that figure, it becomes quite difficult to counterargue on the basis of fairness. However, it does legitimately raise questions as to the nature and quality of the education bought by the baseline (plus loadings) figure paid. I think it also is entirely fair and reasonable to expect transparency and accountability in the organisations you fund (as shareholder, consumer, or taxpayer). How would you propose to balance the interests of all stakeholders here? Significant disparity arises in consequence of differing states funding and operation of their respective education systems. Would you centralise? Some parents are interested to have their children taught in accordance with particular religious doctrine. Would you advocate/introduce more religiosity to secular schools, or would you abolish religion from schools entirely? What of the educative programs some private schools operate which public schools do not? Would you outlaw those, or would you have the public system emulate? What would this cost? How much tax do you want to pay? The knowledge and skills of those in the upper echelons of business, politics (indeed all fields of endeavour) are not acquired solely from their formal schooling curriculum. The value and power of what kids learn out of school hours (in the home, through hobbies, pastimes, and part time work) is not to be underestimated. Sadly, many parents abrogate to formal schooling, the complete responsibility for their own children's education. (P.S. I have previously declared I attended public and private schools in most states and territories of Australia).
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Tall74nHard9
8 years ago
ask that particular American CEO, he probably would beleive his sex IS 354 times better than someone else down the food chain. But that is "typically" Amercan - their mindset is different from other societies. You only have to look at some of the clangers that have been elected President, and the attitudes on gun control as examples of that. Refering to various studies that have been mentioned above brings to mind another one - one done a few years back - that if you presented a globe to them, the vast majority of them could not even find where America was located (is was indeed only a very small proportion, can't remember exactly). A reasonable amount of the wealthy are 'heritage' wealth, ie inherited from previous generations, and the newer wealthy are those from either internet based activities or artist based. Most will never achieve anything more than in the environment in which they were brought up in. Tall
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RHP User
8 years ago
Quoting 'Tall_n_Hard' ask that particular American CEO, he probably would beleive his sex IS 354 times better than someone else down the food chain. But that is "typically" Amercan - their mindset is different from other societies... Tall This phenomenon is not peculiar to America. Company Executive and Board remuneration functions globally. Take a look at an article titled 'Wesfarmers cuts incentive rewards for promoting women and safety' by Jemima Whyte, Australian Financial Review, 21SEP17. Richard Goyder is leaving this year after 12 years at the helm (Group MD). He received $12.1 million of a possible $14 million. $3.3 million is base salary. His incentive bonus is geared 70% for financial targets based on net profit after tax, and 30% on strategic targets. Non-executive directors' pay has been approved to increase 4.5% (and the chairman's fee 2.5%). The consultants engaged to advise on executive and board remuneration were paid $1 million dollars for their service. Wesfarmers are a major employer into about 35 separate business entities. However, it is worthwhile to note the upper echelons of business are ostensibly tasked primarily with strategy and governance. The grunt work is delegated to armies of middle managers and analysts. Following is the remuneration of Coles' shop staff: Coles SalariesColes SalaryJob Title$17.42/hrCheckout Assistant$22.45/hrCustomer Service Team Member$19.33/hrCustomer Service$20.40/hrRetail Assistant
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RHP User
8 years ago
Cut/paste format! Coles shop staff pay c/- 'glassdoor' via Go ogle...
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RHP User
8 years ago
If a Checkout Assistant at Coles were to work full time (~1920hrs per year), Richard Goyder's total remuneration this year is 361 times more...
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RHP User
8 years ago
The other myth that Americans have fallen for is that any form of social policy is out and out communism, any inkling of social policy is condemned outright as communism they see no difference between socialism and communism whatsoever and won't even discuss it. Capitalism rules even for the poorest and most exploited.
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Tall74nHard9
8 years ago
Granted the phenomenon is not uniquely American, but that was not in question. It is just that Americans tend to be the prime examples and have more people in that class system, and they actually believe their own b/s. Tall
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RHP User
8 years ago
an interesting article not long ago which discussed why so many of the poorest, white, southern Americans were such big supporters of the Southern Confederate generals, even though these poor people themselves gained very little if anything in material terms from the continuation of slavery. One of the main reasons was that while black slaves existed, those poor white people could still consider themselves as 'above' or better than another class of people. They still had at least one group of people that they could look down on and consider inferior to themselves, and that made them feel better about themselves. Taking away slavery meant these poor white people wouldn't have that same amount of perceived moral and material superiority, the black people would probably start competing with them for paid work, and all of that scared these white people. Still works with people today to at least partly explain why so many of the poorest people actively vote against their own interests, voting for politicians who really give no shits about them at all and wouldn't care if all the poor died tomorrow but who say what they know these people want to hear to get their votes (oh yeah, those nasty immigrants are taking all your jobs and ruining our country! You deserve more than they do, don't worry we'll keep them in their place and get your jobs back!). Divide and conquer, plays on innate human psychology which means we are easily manipulated.
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RHP User
8 years ago
Perhaps America needs to reflect on a few things ..... - Gun Laws - (Barack tried to change it) John Howard did it in Australia - No Medicare - (Barack tried too) creates a bigger divide by rich who can afford it and the poor cannot maybe creates a "Winner or a Loser" mentality - Greedy CEOS are perhaps just a product of the society of America - "Winner first"
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Innercircle
8 years ago
"" it's also no accident that the rich and powerful perpetuate the myth that 'anyone can make it to the top', you just have to work hard enough, be smart enough, blah blah blah. Most of them know that it's bullshit as well """ It's only those that haven't done it, that don't believe it.
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RHP User
8 years ago
Quoting 'rockercouple80' "" it's also no accident that the rich and powerful perpetuate the myth that 'anyone can make it to the top', you just have to work hard enough, be smart enough, blah blah blah. Most of them know that it's bullshit as well """ It's only those that haven't done it, that don't believe it. that you start thinking about why 99.9% of people in the world haven't done it (I'll give you a hint - in most cases it's not because they're not smart enough, or not hard working enough, or not motivated enough, or whatever else you like to tell yourself to make you think that you're special).
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RHP User
8 years ago
Drawing further on Coles as a case study, consider how incentives and remuneration are negotiated between Executive Management and the Board of Directors... It is now commonplace for those in the "C Suite" to identify and negotiate their own performance targets and measures in conjunction with the Board of Directors. In Mr Goyder's case, the bulk of his incentive payment relates to net profit figures. Achievement of this in the near term is most easily achieved by supressing company headcount and wage levels, and by squeezing suppliers too. Whilst we all get to enjoy $1/litre milk and $0.85 loaves of bread, consider the dynamic impacts down the line. For further reading and consideration, you may care to look at an article in the February 2017 issue of 'the Monthly' by Ann Arnold titled 'The New Black: inside Australia's overworked, underpaid economy'...
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RHP User
8 years ago
By overemphasising individual mobility, we ignore important social determinants of success like family inheritance, social connections, and structural discrimination. Walton family, for example, has more wealth than 42% of American families combined... Americans actually live in Russia, although they think they live in Sweden. I know I have friends in Sweden, too. :) Luck_Dragon, those who send their children to private schools live in belief that their child will rise to riches and become CEO or someone of huge importance. Yes, Tall they do believe they are 345 x better than anyone ... And yes, I wanted you to have fun too.:) Do you feel better if you have men working under you? (Ms)
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RHP User
8 years ago
QANTAS CEO Alan Joyce earned almost $13 million last year. Since his appointment in late 2008, QANTAS has slipped from second to ninth in global rankings of airlines. Avg EBIT (Earnings Before Interest and Tax) has been 1.5% while AirNZ has been 5.9%, ROE (Return on Equity) has been 0.5% while AirNZ is10.6%, and dividend payout ratio of 28% compared to AirNZ payout ratio of 100%. The article* from which I sourced this information (which is quite interesting for a number of reasons) states "recent improvement has only been achieved as the result of massive asset write downs, huge redundancies, and a very significant favourable shift in fuel prices." QANTAS Porters, Baggage Handlers, and Customer Service Agents earn in the range $20.45 to $20.65/hr (c/- Glassdoor). On this basis, Alan Joyce is paid approximately 330 times these QANTAS workers. Source article: 'No pie in the sky: Sour leftovers from the lemon meringue affair', John Elsegood, Spectator Australia, 01JUL17.
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DonnaBrett
8 years ago
HUH?....Just get naked and fuck, that fixes everything
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