M50
Is it just me...or are there some weeks that us males should be ashamed?
November 16 2013
Comments
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RHP User
12 years ago
One women is killed every week in Australia by her male partner or ex male partner and 1 in 3 women over the age of 15 have experienced physical or sexual abuse some time in their life. [whiteribbon.org.au] A story old as time.
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RHP User
12 years ago
Best thing you could do sensulmann is go about correcting Men's reputations one woman at a time. Even if you only succeed with one woman, it would be a start.
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RHP User
12 years ago
I want to be clear, this isn't meant to minimalise the hurt which men may cause towards women.I think however we all as a society need to be ashamed for the horrors that are committed by us towards our fellow humans. I personally can't fathom how one human would do these things to another.From child pornography, rape, exploitation, human trafficking, war, torture - both physical and psychological, and intolerance towards others - we as a race, for all intensive purposes, suck.We all, every single one of us, need to stand up and say not in our names.*gets off soapbox*
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Beachlover1999
12 years ago
It doesn't mean we should give up the fight to eradicate and educate in regard to violence to all, the stats Meeka are sobering and that's the reported cases!!! Sensulmann I to have thought about it this week in regard to that terrible situation, these situations always catch my breath and I think 'That could of been me' or could it???. Made me think and question about my online/offline practice and reevaluate those checks and balances. My thoughts are with that girl, keep safe out there :)
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RHP User
12 years ago
Not in the same words but with the same meaning. There are and always will be the bad element in here that spoils it for the rest. These guys are usually self absorbed and couldn't give a hoot about the decent guys.. That's what makes them that way... It's them and their dick first, and everything else second...
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RHP User
12 years ago
The only time we should be ashamed is when we fail to act and put a stop to this or perpetrate the act ourselves.Be angry with others who do these heinous things, but don't be ashamed for them (they should feel ashamed for themselves). Violence, be it physical OR mental, towards anyone, especially children and the defenceless, is unacceptable.SG
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RHP User
12 years ago
given such violence and cruelty has existed since the beginning of time, it falls somewhere on the spectrum of normal behaviour for the human race? All sorts of seemingly depraved behaviour appears consistently in other animal species. Perhaps it's like a statistical outlier. It's traumatic and horrific and devastating, but is it also to be expected, because it's always been?- Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
12 years ago
One bad apple dont spoil the whole bunch :) I try never to stereotype. Take each individual as just that... An individual . And just remember... there are also some real nasty bitches out there also . - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
12 years ago
Does not reflect that of another- Posted from rhpmobile
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sweetgem
12 years ago
That there are some real nasty women out there too! So, don't let one bad apple spoil the whole bunch :-)- Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
12 years ago
So sweetgem and JayJay, it's ok for men to attack and kill women because they are bitches? Is that what you're saying? Meeka just wrote that a woman is KILLED by her partner every week in this country and you reply that some women are bitches?? Wtf? The op mentions Jill Meagher and you reply that some women are bitches? So what... That's beside the point... The point is that men do terrible, violent things to women and how do men feel about it? Are you saying they shouldn't feel bad because some women are bitches? Really?? Wtf? I feel bad about it because I live in a society that has this happening, I feel bad because I can't do anything about it and I feel bad because I know there must be more that I can do about this. I feel conflicted because I love the men and boys in my life and want them to feel good about themselves but not accept that violence is ever ok and not buy into the patriarchal view that they can be dominant. Thank you op for at least acknowledging that.
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RHP User
12 years ago
agree with Awesome,great post....the statistics as quoted by meeka are more than tragic....
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RHP User
12 years ago
This man bashing shit is getting beyond a reasonable level. Every so often we have this topic rear it's ugliness without any pointed at the reverse situation. I think you'd all be very surprised at just how EVEN the stats would be in terms of offending parties. Men just don't report it. I knew a guy that I drove with who was an ex copper who felt so ashamed and powerless against his wife that he near killed himself. I have another mate who I saw get beaten by his partner but was told to stay out of it (by him not her)when I went to restrain her. Yet where are their voices??? Shits me up the wall, that it's quite ok to feel ashamed to be a male when things like this happen and I don't detract from the hurt and mental scarring it delivers. But the opposite we're seen as a misogynist, and those scars are no different. *takes a deep breath* Ok rant over- Posted from rhpmobile
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Paradisepair
12 years ago
Won't somebody think of the menz...!?! The OP wasn't man-bashing he was expressing his thoughts and feelings... therefore it's unnecessary to point out repeatedly that all men aren't like this. Just a pet hate of mine (MrsP) because online you can never ever have a gender based discussion without it.... And yes women can be bitches, but if we look at the stats about whose in charge of governments, large community destroying corporations etc, it's a mans world. And the armies maybe be utilising females these days but for centuries women were only in war to heal and help the wounded. If we look at serial killers too apart from maybe a few women who worked with their male counterpart that's a male dominated area... And that's fact not observation, this world needs gender balance in positions of power and when we truly achieve it it will be a better place it's just that it may be too late....
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RHP User
12 years ago
A woman is raped every 20 minutes in India, In Japan, Egypt, India, Iran, Taiwan, Brazil, Mexico, Indonesia, Philippines, Malaysia and Dubai they offer women only carriages on trains and some buses because of the lewd behaviour and sexual harassment perpetrated by the men.Apparently that statistic of 1 in 3 women being subjected to physically or sexually abuse through out their life is consistent with the global averages. Awesome71, what we can do is to educate our sons and daughters how to treat people and what is acceptable behaviour. Education is key and is something we can all do. This why I don't like it when people are so against the feminist and say they are all militant and rigid in their out looks. Maybe, but it has taken some very strong women throughout history to change how women were treated.
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RHP User
12 years ago
How was the NZ rape case this week, where one of the arguments put forward by the defence lawyer was that all the woman had to do was close her legs and she wouldn't have been raped.
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RHP User
12 years ago
I agree. How are all the child pornography rings being found out of the last couple of years. Weren't 65 Australians recently arrested for child pornography. It makes you think that its more common than we realise. Horrifying!
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RHP User
12 years ago
Quoting 'Sun_Kissed' given such violence and cruelty has existed since the beginning of time, it falls somewhere on the spectrum of normal behaviour for the human race? All sorts of seemingly depraved behaviour appears consistently in other animal species. Perhaps it's like a statistical outlier. It's traumatic and horrific and devastating, but is it also to be expected, because it's always been?- Posted from rhpmobile Yes I partly agree, but it's also a cultural thing as well as can be seen from country to country. Also mental illness plays apart. The Melbourne woman bashed this week, don't they think it was a complete stranger that bashed her up?Do you think in western cultures one of the reasons for male violence is because they don't know any other way of expressing their feelings?
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RHP User
12 years ago
It's always terrible to hear of any tragedy,some of the worst examples we never hear about.Both sexes can commit horrible things,men certainly have no monopoly on it though.There was that woman that killed her mother,another her child etc.I don't think anyone meant that 'bitches' deserve to die..it was just trying to say there are bad people on both sides of the sexual divide. What is different between the sexes is that men kill/commit violence in a way the seems entwined with latent sexual issues way more than women (my opinion only,I have no supporting data).I abhor any male that uses his physical superiority or to lord it over a women and I'm sure most of us has seen this sometimes in our lives,some of us more than others.Men and women both wield mental abuse as weapons.Religion,cultural beliefs,ignorance,sexual insecurities provide a lot of the basis for this ongoing mistreatment of our most vulnerable members of society.As the (mostly) stronger sex men are naturally going to be blamed for physical violence. By what you see in Africa in the tribal areas where women are treated like (sometimes useful) vermin it could certainly be a lot worse here.It's shameful but it's what we evolved from.It's up to all men to prove that we can be true protectors of humanity.I wish all my brothers could be true gentlemen and know what it means to be an enlightened man.
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RHP User
12 years ago
I really should just follow the rest of the sheep and say yes us men are such bastards at times. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
12 years ago
Almost one in four young people are aware of their mum/stepmum hitting their dad/stepdad Male and female victims of reported domestic assault receive very similar numbers and types of injuries Males are almost three times less likely to report being a victim of domestic violence to the police Post-separation, similar proportions of men and women report experiencing physical violence including threats by their former spouse More facts and stats here. MALE VICTIMS LACK SUPPORT- Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
12 years ago
I could not have said it any better myself.....well done.Quoting 'thewinchester' I want to be clear, this isn't meant to minimalise the hurt which men may cause towards women.I think however we all as a society need to be ashamed for the horrors that are committed by us towards our fellow humans. I personally can't fathom how one human would do these things to another.From child pornography, rape, exploitation, human trafficking, war, torture - both physical and psychological, and intolerance towards others - we as a race, for all intensive purposes, suck.We all, every single one of us, need to stand up and say not in our names.*gets off soapbox*
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RHP User
12 years ago
Quoting 'Paradisepair' Won't somebody think of the menz...!?! The OP wasn't man-bashing he was expressing his thoughts and feelings... therefore it's unnecessary to point out repeatedly that all men aren't like this. Just a pet hate of mine (MrsP) because online you can never ever have a gender based discussion without it.... And yes women can be bitches, but if we look at the stats about whose in charge of governments, large community destroying corporations etc, it's a mans world. And the armies maybe be utilising females these days but for centuries women were only in war to heal and help the wounded. If we look at serial killers too apart from maybe a few women who worked with their male counterpart that's a male dominated area... And that's fact not observation, this world needs gender balance in positions of power and when we truly achieve it it will be a better place it's just that it may be too late.... Exactly. I'm getting tired of having to qualify every time I write something negative about a male, that I'm aware that not all males are like that, or risk having everyone start yelling "MAN BASHING" at me. I think most intelligent people would realise that when people talk about these things they are not saying that all men (or all women) are like that, and we should be able to progress the discussion about these things without having to go through the same old crap every single time. And men, the cold hard fact is that the majority of violent acts, sexual assaults, rapes, etc. are perpetrated by men. In the case of sexual assault and rape, by men against women. Of course that's just talking about the stats, the reasons behind them are very complex and can't just be summed up by one or two factors. I think part of the problem is that a lot of men don't realise the extent of the problem, and how the well publicised cases like Jill Meagher where the woman is attacked by a stranger are actually only the tip of the iceberg. Most attempted and actual sexual assaults go unreported and they are most likely to be perpetrated by family members and friends. And why do most women not report them? Well because even today there is still a culture of blaming the victim, insinuating that she did something to warrant the attack. If you haven't heard about the recent case of the self-titled 'Roast Busters' in New Zealand then I suggest googling it. These guys were intentionally preying on young teenage girls, getting them drunk and raping them, then publicly shaming them on social media. Almost as disgusting as this is the way the victims have been treated by police, and by the media in New Zealand. The victim blaming is unbelievable; these are 13 and 14 year old girls we're talking about. Perhaps very relevant is the fact that one of the boys is the son of a police officer, and one the son of a relatively famous actor. Only now that the story has escaped into international attention does it look like some action is finally being taken.Ok I could rant about this topic forever so I'll leave it there for now. Except for mentioning a guy called Jackson Katz, and his documentary "Tough Guise". I've only watched the youtube clip of him speaking but there is a full documentary as well. I recommend them.
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RHP User
12 years ago
I think you have completely misunderstood the very simple point I was trying to make!! While there are men out there committing atrocities against women...there are also women out there also that kill,attack etc Its not just men....its the human race!! From your reply I take it that you thought I was saying that women were attacked because they were bitches!! Absolutely NOT!! Merely trying to say that its not just men that commit these crimes...women also are guilty.. Women also do terrible violent things to men!! I grew up with violence in my face....Don't EVER insinuate that I condone it
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RHP User
12 years ago
Quoting 'sirlurkalot' I really should just follow the rest of the sheep and say yes us men are such bastards at times. - Posted from rhpmobile Oh come on SL, grow up, surely people can have a mature discussion about this type of thing without the men getting all huffy and puffy and saying that it's anti-men to even bring attention to it. Like by doing so we are personally labelling every single male on the planet. I am sick of the way that people are attacked on here when they bring up topics like this, even when they go to great lengths to point out that they are not generalising about the gender as a whole.
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RHP User
12 years ago
Yes it is true male victims lack support... actually is it? I don't know is that is true or not? In my "wouldn't really have a clue opinion" wouldn't most men keep it to themselves because of shame? They are supposed be the strong ones? It's one of those things, if you don't speak up people don't know. With the statistics you have to keep in mind that lots and lots of women are not coming forward either. And often they are shamed and bullied when they do. Power really corrupts.
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RHP User
12 years ago
Can you please state the source of your information. Thanks.
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RHP User
12 years ago
You've missed my point. I call it man bashing as it is. The OP feels ashamed to be male due to over representation of males as perpetrators of these horrific crimes. It's not he who is a perp, it's not I either. It's not a lot of us, and I refuse to feel ashamed to be a male due to the actions of others. Do I condone the crimes ?? Nope, but it's specifically geared towards pecking away at men only. Which is where I will always refuse to join in at sticking the boots in to the targeted gender. I don't have issue with the debate of family violence. But the debate should be about the perps which are not limited to one gender. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
12 years ago
I think you have let this become too personal. The OP is referring to two specific crimes. And that is how he feels. He has a right to feel that way. His thread is about violence to women specifically so people have commented with that mind. Nobody has said it does also happen to men or children. Or men man bashing each too I may add. Hmm. There is a lot of violence and manipulation in this world.
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RHP User
12 years ago
That is meant to say "nobody has said it doesn't happen to men and children as well"
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RHP User
12 years ago
Watching the news every day this past week. I find story after story' I sit there nodding my head in wonderment on how a certain section of the community are capable to commit these hideous crimes . Shootings , Stabbings , Bashings, Mugging old people.. They just don't seem to care. ? I don't care what anybody thinks, it's gets back to the way these morons are bought up. Violent parents breed violent offspring. You can't reason with this mindset you can only hope to get to them before they get to you.. Sad but true..
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DonnaBrett
12 years ago
It is the judges, politicians & law makers who should be ashamed!! They are the ones that continually allow these scum of the earth out of jail to walk the streets. They are too scared of the do gooders & bleeding hearts out there who say everyone deserves a second chance. No they don't! As usual, in this country the minority groups get their way. Until the powers that be change their attitude towards violent crims, nothing will change and the attacks & murders will continue.
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RHP User
12 years ago
Of course the perpetrators aren't limited to one gender. Nobody is saying that they are. But this topic is about men, and the fact remains that the majority of perpetrators are males...and even if more men reported as being victims I very much doubt the actual stats would change because a lot of women don't report either. And in terms of addressing the problem, as well as some general anti-violence programs there definitely should also be gendered ones, because the reasons and factors motivating male and females as perpetrators are different. Society places very different expectations and demands on males and females and those play a big part in shaping behaviour. So what works for a man is probably not going to work as well for a woman. It is not sexist, or 'man bashing', or 'woman bashing' to address these issues in this way. It is responding to the evidence in the most appropriate manner.I'm not quite sure why a lot of men such as yourself seem take these things as a personal insult, and think that even pointing it out qualifies as 'man bashing', I'm sure there's some psychology behind it. All I know is I think that this man-bashing card is starting to get very overplayed in these forums and generally. I do agree that trivial negative generalisations and stereotypes of men based only on personal experience are not helpful and should be avoided, just as they should be when it comes to women. However, when the term starts being used as an excuse to avoid real, actual issues, and every time someone brings up any negative experience they've had with a male/s, then I have a problem with it. And that is happening more and more.
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RHP User
12 years ago
At least one in three victims of family violence is male More than one male per week is a victim of domestic homicide We have a very close friend that was badly attacked by a female he had to be taken to hospital .. He was the one charged in a court Of law for assault .. He was told he wouldn't win - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
12 years ago
I take this issue very personally as I've seen and dealt with violent people from 9 years of crowd control work. I also feel it was suggested that it was inappropriate to mention women perps, and that just pisses me off to be honest. Violence is violence and targeting men with the statement "us males should be ashamed" is in my view emotive at best.....just as my initial reaction was. Why should I feel ashamed to be a male in today's world because of the actions of others?? They speak not for me.....- Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
12 years ago
My 2 cents is that these things take a lot of time and generations to change for the better. I could throw a whole bunch of examples out there such as slavery, giving women the right to vote, apartheid and recently NSW and ACT gay marriage laws are things that change has not happened over night but eventually over a long period of time, peoples understanding and sense of what's right and wrong change. In saying that there will always be some people who think that the law doesn't apply to them which is why we have a justice system and I don't think honestly that we will ever get away from that as is part of our DNA :-/.To the topic of violence to women yes the more we speak out against it and educate the younger generation on right and wrong the more things will change over time. When we don't speak up we are condoning their actions. To the op, I say sure speak out but I don't think that letting a minority's action affect you and play on your mind to such an extent (but it is the bad few that make the rest of us look bad) is a such positive thing. To LD and Lurk I would say that you both have valid points and somewhere in the middle is answer.Cheers, W.
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RHP User
12 years ago
Quoting 'Luckdragon23'Of course the perpetrators aren't limited to one gender. Nobody is saying that they are. But this topic is about men, and the fact remains that the majority of perpetrators are males...and even if more men reported as being victims I very much doubt the actual stats would change because a lot of women don't report either. Reminds me of my White Ribbon thread a year ago. I had included victimised men and intersex persons to cover all the bases, even though White Ribbon Day focuses on domestic violence from a man to a woman. What happened? People complained because I didn't include children and animals in my OP. Sometimes you just can't win. Come to think about it, it's about time to repeat my White Ribbon Oath forum.
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RHP User
12 years ago
Would be better to describe this situation as an attitude problem towards people in general. People who impose their will on others is the whole issue ,weather it be men or women !No one likes being stood over,bullied,having violence committed against them !
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RHP User
12 years ago
Yes and 1 in 3 men are victim to family violence... By other men of the family most likely. Still you have quoted here you are retting your stats from.
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RHP User
12 years ago
You have not quoted where you are getting your stats from.
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RHP User
12 years ago
How about those dickhead teenagers and young people... Men and women having fights and being violent in the street every weekend. Something Aussies are known for. What's everyone think of the king hit laws being changed so that maximum sentence of 20 years can be imposed?
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RHP User
12 years ago
the story holds true for the females.*shrugs*Dilligaf?
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RHP User
12 years ago
I don't like how things are, and will not be a friend to anyone that displays any type of abusive behaviour towards either sex, my friends and I are of the opinion that if you start something you're on your own.
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RHP User
12 years ago
OP seems to be using tragic events to advertise himself as one of the good guys. One of the most cynical threads I have ever seen.
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RHP User
12 years ago
The sentence of 20 years will never be imposed I don't think in my life. They hardly get near that for murder or rape But I think the death penalty should be brought back for some of the more serious and heinous crimes - Posted from rhpmobile
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beebs
12 years ago
Fathers to teach their sons not to rape women....and that isn't just in the violent horrific woman hating way but also to respect consent. Know that wanting to take advantage of someone who isn't able to willingly convey that happy sexy times is what they want is not the right way to behave.
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RHP User
12 years ago
In Melbourne alone we have the institutional sexual abuse commission hearings, footballer rape case going to trial, a woman brutally beaten by someone she met on a dating site and many more. All by males. And all since the affecting Jill Meagher tragedy and the publicity, ceremony and rhetoric condemning it all. I'm not sure what it is about males, I mean there's far more men in prisons than women. We're not all like that. The guy that raped and killed Jill Meagher was, in effect, a career criminal, albeit a sex crime criminal.It's easy to be PC and decry such cruelty out of reflex. But the reality is incredibly complex. Deeper communication and meditations and education need to happen. But as sunkissed mentioned, sadly, it's an ancient and deeply embedded part of humanity, and in some cases nature. Morality's a mind fuck. One night a few months back after work (I was working nights in hospitality) me a male and female friend were walking to a bar, sober, and saw a drunk young woman staggering onto the road. There was a couple laughing while kissing as they watched her precariously sway near oncoming traffic. Me and my male friend went over to try and help her. As soon as we talked to her to see how she was, the female in the kissing couple, who as it turns out was a friend of hers, aggressively pushed us away with some blunt words as if we were taking advantage of her. Not a good feeling, thinking you're helping someone with the Jill Meagher case clearly in mind, and being seen as a male threat by others (idiots at that) with the Jill Meagher case in mind. Now they're planning a scheme called the Pink taxi service. Operated by women, driven by women, only for women. Which is fair enough. But as a conscientious male I can't help but feel saddened by it. That it may have come to such measures.It's a shame. A big one. Regardless of gender, it affects us all.
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RHP User
12 years ago
Thank you to the posters reminding us men that we personally should not be tainted by the actions of others, nor bear responsibility, shame or guilt for things we are not guilty of. It's a big issue for me. I have personally, within very small degrees of separation, been affected by violence by men towards women as well as children, and have also been the target of ongoing violence towards me from a female partner experiencing emotional instability at the time. This is not a call for sympathy, merely an illustration of its prevalence in my first 40 years, but here is my list demonstrating how close to home it all is, and yes, that we all do have a responsibility to practice kindness and tolerance towards each other. 1) A girl I was seeing for a short while in high school was years later massacred brutally in a high profile murder case. 2) A cousin of one of my former partners was shot dead with a rifle by estranged husband. 3) A close friend of my family's sister was murdered by estranged husband. 4) A lady renting next door to a family member was shot in the head with a shotgun by estranged husband. 5) One of my first sexual expreinces with a woman I was very close to sexually abused as a child by her father. 6) First serious girlfriend sexually abused as a child by her father. 7) Unknown number of my own family members sexually abused by another parental family member. 8) Too many friends, both male and female, sexually abused as children. 9) A female partner physically and emotionally abused by her mother, sexually abused by a trusted male family friend, physically & sexually abused by a former male partner. 10) Same partner as above physically assaulted and emotionally abused me during a period of emotional instability lasting over a year. 11) A female family member physically abusive towards her husband in my childhood. 12) Another female family member's partner attempted to kill them both by crashing the car they were in. That's just off the top of my head, but start including the family, friends and community of the above people and the number of people affected by the isolated actions of one human towards another starts to grow exponentially. What can be done about it? Be better. Do better. Stand up & be counted. But that's just focussing on the problem. Solutions also lie in creating healthy, empathetic and caring relationships and societies, with your partner, with your family & friends, with your neighbours, with the community. To cultivate a spirit of warmth, generosity & compassion within yourself and towards others. For both men & women, this can be done while embracing all that strong, bold and fierce, with a warrior spirit, or that of a lioness. I don't want to sound too soft around the edges here. To address your points OP, yes, it pays to be aware that there are risks and dangers associated with online dating. I have a habit of ensuring anyone I meet lets a friend know where they are and at they are doing and with whom, not that they need it with me, but to know that they are thinking about their own safety and being sensible. I feel a bit of responsibility in this regard to at least plant the seed in their minds of having a safety protocol. When they leave, I encourage them to let their friend know they are heading home safely, or if they decide to stay over, to likewise keep their friend informed, and then relieved of duty by texting them when the leave the next day. Like you suggest, I feel an obligation of sorts to make sure that women are keeping themselves safe as a habit of practice. As for taking a stand against this issue, it takes guts to face your mate with love, and understanding, to say "I know you must be really struggling at the moment, but a line has been crossed here, and its going to do the situation best if you stand back from it for a while and reassess just what is going on, and ways to cope with it or handle it well", and be there for them while they work through their anger, rage, resentment, entitlement, jealousy and other very powerful and at times overwhelming emotions. This issue is about to hit nation wide headlines and calls for action, rallies, information, education, commitment, and solidarity in a campaign for Australians to stop violence against women. Look it up, and get involved if you feel to do so. White Ribbon Day, 25th Nov, check it out at: whiteribbon dot org dot au
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RHP User
12 years ago
Who does that??? I mean in a conscious state - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
12 years ago
I take responsbility for my actions and not someone elses and that means I don't ignore or allow someone else to do these things. As a child I saw violence against women first hand and made my choice my decesion that I would never commit the same actions and any man who uses the excuse I was brought up with it just a cop out.
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RHP User
12 years ago
... horrible things happen and i am talking more in a general sense and it has been discussed at length almost everywhere by now. Of course i feel like shit as a man when yet another rape/murder happens, but what can we do? We can only do our best in our own lives, to follow our moral compass even when somebody is being a total bitch/arsehole and deserves a whack.. I have not been in a fight since primary school. If you think i'm being a coward by walking away, suit yourself but i'm not resorting to violence!And whenever in the future i might end up having kids, that's one of the things i try to pass on, as my father tried to his best to teach me the rights and wrongs in the world.Helping each other, no matter how unimportant it may seem, is the first step. It always starts with the first step one takes...
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RHP User
12 years ago
As a young Woman I used to feel incredibly weary about taking cabs on my own. One day, a taxi driver told me how humiliated he felt because women treated taxi drivers with such suspicion. Oops. But at the time it seemed to me such a foolish thing to do, get in a car with a strange male. I had one girlfriend who would not enter into a lift with only men in it. Now I don't know why or what was going on at the time, why were so many of my girlfriends so scared about walking around on our own or being alone with men we didn't know? I think partly our parents taught us that strange men were not to be trusted.
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RHP User
12 years ago
I know. A lot of women have told me about some taxi drivers making propositions for sexual favours as a fare. One late night/early morning walking home I heard a taxi driver violently yelling some horrific stuff at a young woman he'd just dropped off. She ran into her house in a quiet-ish street then I walked past and the taxi driver saw me and raced off. Got chills thinking of what may have happened.I just think it's very sad that suspicion and pre-judgement can create a terrible schism in society. Understandable, BUT the opportunistic, predatory and vile individuals who cast these shadows will always, no mater how aware the community or how harsh the laws, find a way to scheme and indulge their weasel ways. They also seem to replenish in stock.It's just a little upsetting. No doubt it needs to stop. But at what cost to the rest of us?
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RHP User
12 years ago
That discrimination against women, misogyny, violence against women all happen and happen far far too often. And this fact is not nullified because some women can be bad to men.But there is also no doubt that this differs from person to person, culture to culture, and that one of the most important human characteristics is that we can re-invent ourselves.And it is up to all of us, but especially to men, and especially fathers of sons, to bring about positive change.
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RHP User
12 years ago
Quoting 'Unrushed1' What can be done about it? Be better. Do better. Stand up & be counted. But that's just focussing on the problem. Solutions also lie in creating healthy, empathetic and caring relationships and societies, with your partner, with your family & friends, with your neighbours, with the community. To cultivate a spirit of warmth, generosity & compassion within yourself and towards others. For both men & women, this can be done while embracing all that strong, bold and fierce, with a warrior spirit, or that of a lioness. I don't want to sound too soft around the edges here. Totally agree Unrushed1, If we can all encourage empathy in our own development and in our children, then we would never perpetrate violence to begin with. How could you hurt someone that you care about or had compassion for? How could we turn violent if we had that in our own experience, someone cared and could really understand us? We as a society need to look at how we are dealing with both the victim and perpetrator and get to the underlying cause rather than just look at the behaviour. No one turns into a violent person without having experienced it for themselves. If we don't begin to understand the causes then we can never find the solutions. And by the way, I don't think shaming works... it just creates more potential for violence by those who already feel deep shame. Jails don't work either, they just put the problem on a shelf for a few years. What helps is getting inside of these violent people (man or woman) and undoing the damage that has been done to them to create the problem in the first place. That's not to say every person who has experienced violence or abuse becomes a perpetrator, it can contribute... but many people just need to learn better coping and response mechanisms. Leave the jails for those that cannot truly be rehabilitated.I know, I'm an idealist... optimist even!
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RHP User
12 years ago
And this all happened in and around Newcastle? Mining areas... Makes you wonder.
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RHP User
12 years ago
Friend of mine got into a cab in Germany, and yes she was drunk. Maybe it was Octoberfest? And two blokes jumped in after her and sexually molested her, she wouldn't give us the details so I am not sure how far things went, the taxi driver just watched. I am sure that this had a big impact on me.
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RHP User
12 years ago
Well Meeka, you saw what happened with the Dwarves in the Mines of Moria in Middle Earth, right? But no, I have not spent my entire life in Newcastle, mixing only with people born & bred here :-)
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RHP User
12 years ago
Check out on YouTube "RSA Animate The Empathic Civilization" for a very clever and inspirational illustration of how an empathetic society would work.
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RHP User
12 years ago
Quoting 'kingoftheroad'And it is up to all of us, but especially to men, and especially fathers of sons, to bring about positive change.
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Originalbadboy
12 years ago
As I remember in the Bible and the Koran, an eye for an eye is effectively the law used. Wonder what would happen to all those evil doer's if that became law here? In jails here and the US and UK, anybody who has done things to the perceived weaker people usually have that which they did done to them. Does it solve the problem? Possibly, but highly unlikely.I believe that society has allowed this to become the norm. I have friends who have to deal with the results of fights with just girls involved, and they are horrific. I was working in a hospital in Melbourne a few years ago and the amount of damage these girls {yes i say girls as they were not even 18!} were doing to each other in fights was to the point that the trauma staff were struggling to put them back together. It used to be relegated to males doing damage to others but the stats are changing to reflect the actual instances.On August 10 2006 the ABS re-issued the results of the first national Personal Safety Survey presenting information about women's and men's experiences of violence.There was a small decrease in the overall incidence of sexual violence over the 12 months preceding the 1996 and 2005 surveys, but an increase over the course of women's life times.Since the age of 15, people were more likely to have experienced violence from a previous partner than from a current partner.Since the age of 15, 32.5% of women have experienced inappropriate comments about their body or sex life, compared to 11.7% of men. 25.1% of women experienced unwanted sexual touching copared to 9.9% of men.Women in Australia still experience high rates of sexual violence.Men are most at risk in public spaces and licensed premises from men they don't know.Women are at more risk of violence in the home from men they know.Both men and women most often experience violence from male perpetrators.During the 12 months prior to the survey, 8.3% of Australians experienced some sort of violence.{from facts and figures @ aifs}I have known men who have been assulted by their partners and because of the perception the man has been charged.I also know women who have not reported their partner saying that "It was my fault" or 'I started it".The one that scares me the most is the fact that children are starting to do things at such a young age. Britney Spears type clothing on a 10 year old girl is in my eyes not responsible parenting. The instances of children trying to be like gossip girl or similar is scary. My friend who is an assistant principal at a primary school has told me that they now have 2 full time counselors on staff. One deals with violence only, the other is sexual related problems. This is a primary school! What happens when they get older?What about marital, emotional, environmental rape?What about the new one punch laws?If only the" point of view gun" was real, it could solve a lot of problems.Obbi"so long and thanks for all the fish" ;-}
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RHP User
12 years ago
I think that's probably somewhat true re Western cultures. I do think though that there's a difference between 'what most people are comfortable with' and a true 'definition of normal'. I wouldn't mind betting there's a study or 10 somewhere that show things like violence, psychosis etc are literally a normal, though statistically rare (compared to non-violence, non-psychosis) aspect of being a living being - human or otherwise. Humans have the advantage of self-awareness and conscious choice of course, and I think that's the strength of many traditional societies - the incentives for unity are strong, and the disincentives for disunity are strong. Western society has that back to front I reckon.
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RHP User
12 years ago
... when there are child molesters in prisons? I think this thread is great. Expressing feelings about such a tragic event, reading about experiences that people should never have to endure, this is how the battle will be won - one day. Silence or turning the other cheek is what we should be ashamed of, not speaking out, or taking no action! Beebs - agreed Colsluxy, great attitude you and your friends have Unrushed1 - wow!! you have had to deal with more than most and have come out on top. StSinner I hope you would do the same thing if you came across the situation again! Perhaps thats what was needed that night... other people probably looked on and saw the good deed you were trying to do, and may have asked themselves what stopped them from stepping in prior to you arriving on the scene, the friend when she sobered up might remember what you actually did for her friend, and then realise she had failed her friend by letting the night turn out that way. Anna ahh emoticons - I haven't used my computer for rhp in ages!
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