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RHP

RHP User

M60 F54

Narcissists, nice men and relationships (It would be correct to substitute one gender for another)

April 09 2017

nice guys

People who show high levels of self-importance, superiority, entitlement, arrogance and a willingness to exploit others are often perceived as very attractive in initial encounters. This may be because they put a lot of effort into their appearance and how they come across. In the short term, narcissist can even seem more well-adjusted and entertaining, but over the long term, they find it difficult to maintain a favourable impression. Not surprisingly, they don’t like long-term, committed relationships and don’t do well in them anyway. Many studies have shown that women prefer men who are sensitive, confident and easy-going, and that very few women want to date demanding or aggressive man. In fact, nice personality affects impressions of a person’s physical attractiveness. Characteristics such as warmth, kindness, and basic decency are valued and having them makes us appear more physically attractive. Of course, sometimes we do find “bad” people attractive, but women who end up with them are repeating patterns of behaviour they’ve become used to in past relationships. The problem with the nice-guys-finish-last stereotype is that it may compromise the possibility of having meaningful relationships. In the end, the idea that women want to date "bad" or rich men... really just reinforces the misogynist’s idea of deceitful women. It allows some men to blame and hate women as a means of deflecting attention away from their own shortcomings. Do narcissists miss loving, would they have liked to love? To them these questions are incomprehensible. They do not know what is it that they are supposedly missing. They equate love with weakness, and they hate and despise weak people. Narcissist is a lonely wolf. Be happy if you are not one of them. Please, share your stories or thoughts as some Rhp members could find it extremely useful. (Ms)

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    I've met a few..... online and in real life. Some definitely come across as interested in the other party and there is an overall favourable impression. They look good and act impeccably - to start. I have found a few common threads - after a while online - and if any of these red flags crop up I tend to back right off. I have been caught out a couple of times but that was after I ignored my gut and went with it anyway. Oh well - I had fun and learned a little more about narcissists. There are all types and I have met a few psychopaths as well... not axe wielding serial killers but men who definitely fit the profile. I've also met guys that just don't 'do it' for me - no real reason just not there. I enjoy being around men who have certain qualities. They are relaxed, funny, intelligent, love their kids (if they have them) and are genuinely good guys. There are other qualities but these are important. Education or profession are not important to me but a happy disposition, relaxed personality and a genuine warmth are very important. Whether in a lover or a friend, these are common traits I find work for me. A few minutes chatting in person is usually enough for me to work it out. KH

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  • Middle_Child

    Middle_Child

    9 years ago

    Long time reader - first time poster - but this is a subject I have first hand knowledge of. The wonderous thing about a narcissist is that they are a master of ensnaring you into their lives. In the case of male narcissists this may be by way of becoming the object of your desire by being everything you desire in a man - once you are hooked then the punishment begins its grueling circle. Narcissists don't care about you their world is them and their wants and needs you are simply a means to an end - and believe me there will be an end that in most cases will cause the most unbelievable pain and loss - that is until (if you have the strength to endure the relentless onslaught of abuse and then total abyss of nothing) you regain your feet and slowly starting pulling yourself back into the land of the living. Know that you have done nothing wrong though they will be quick to blame you for all and sundry that goes wrong in the narcissist's life because deflection and gaslighting is their super power. Cat n the Hatter you have posed some very relevant questions: Do narcissists miss loving, would they have liked to love? They think they do but its my opinion they don't know how and given the way they treat the people around them I would have to say no. Narcissists are at the top of their own list - anything and everyone else runs a poor last including children but they will use all their talents to turn them against a person who has or attempts to out them to family and friends. Narcissists are and always will be alone - they are hollow inside and whilst they claim to love they are simply not capable of such an emotion or feeling. Love is a weakness to them and they will use it against you at every opportunity be it by way of guilt or punishment to get the fix they need from your utter despair - or the craziness that erupts from within you when it becomes clear that something is very wrong in the relationship. Everyone should be aware of the traits of the narcissist and how to remove yourself from what could be a totally devastating experience. My narcissist took my health, my confidence, my self-worth and nearly my sanity. And its just not males - I have come across some very disturbing females in my life who were equal if not worse than my narcissist. But I did my research and I got help and together with 4 years being an emotional and sexual hermit I finally found myself back where I started - laughing and living my life again with no pain or fear and its great to be back

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Some good and valid points raised. I personally always start with the physical, and that is a high priority still BUT I never meet guys if they are too into themselves, all the things you said, arrogant, all about them and their needs/wants, and they are the ones who will always want to rush me, not allowing time to check they are legit etc. I don't have time for that sort of crap, they need to respect that I need to take care of my security and weed out the fakes, plenty of them, and that I'm a warm, caring, passionate woman, and if they can't offer me that in return, regardless of how hot they are, that's where it ends. I have zero interest in being an unpaid hooker, they need to deliver on a few different levels.Now the physical though is really important for me and I don't always find good looks and body necessarily throw them in the same stereotypical basket, however there are some that aren't good lovers, because they've been able to roll along with their amazing looks and body, and never had to extend themselves further, learn to be a giving lover as well, so I weed them out as well. But I continue to look for, and find, the physical I'm attracted to, and the nice person to go with it. I have a huge amount of respect for guys for work out to keep their bodies beautiful and although I don't expect perfection, I'm nowhere close to that, I know what I'm turned on by when the clothes come off, and that goes for age as well, much I can't say about that on here but still very focused on young bodies, and minds for that matter. I do find young guys easy to be around, carefree, fun and very horny, works for me. So I look for the right balance and at the moment, I'm so busy, I don't have time to meet the ones I'm currently in contact with, so not in a rush to find new ones. Quality over quantity, although I'd take a few at a time

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    never love anyone but themselves.

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  • EarthQueen

    EarthQueen

    9 years ago

    You have hit the nail on the head there. All very true and relevant. As you say Cat in the Hatter narcissistic people can be very enticing at first, they have many qualities that make them interesting to date or meet. This is fine as long as you don't expect anything more meaningful, especially not a relationship that is based on mutual love, caring and respect. Its important to not fall into the trap of trying to help the narcissist. They can only help themselves and this can only happen if they recognise they are one. Which is unlikely, given their personality disorder. Middle Child glad you have come out the other end happy. Healing after a relationship with a narcissist can be extremely difficult and soul destroying so go you xx

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Thanks meander! Love it x - Posted from rhpmobile

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  • Middle_Child

    Middle_Child

    9 years ago

    Meander your writing was exceptional and everything you wrote was very much my life for 15 long years. Thank you too Earthqueen.

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    (It would be correct to substitute one gender for another) Not only men belong to this category and it would be good to hear their opinions or stories if possible. While the cerebral narcissist punishes through abstention of sex - the somatic narcissist penalises through excess. Narcissist is not the same as psychopath. The narcissist's mother kept behaving as though the narcissist was and is not special (to her). The narcissist's whole life is a pitiful effort to prove her wrong. The narcissist constantly seeks confirmation from others that he/she is special - in other words that he/she is, that he/she actually exists. (Ms)

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Great article I can really relate to it !!!! - Posted from rhpmobile

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Great article I can really relate to it !!!! - Posted from rhpmobile

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Cat in the Hatter: you asked for a male perspective, and maybe I can give one. I am a narc survivor, and can attest that, although it's estimated that 60% of narcissists are men, there are plenty of women too. There is a slight difference though. As has been noted, many of the traits of a narcissistic male are viewed as positives in this rat race we live in: aggression, assertiveness, arrogance, competitiveness, ruthlessness, ambition. These are not generally traits that are considered appealing in women, since they are generally filed under Bitch. So female narcissists are usually less visible than males, which makes them more insidious. Also, men tend more often to be grandiose narcissists, certain of their own superiority. Women, and this is my experience with my ex, tend to be compensatory narcissists, Their behaviour stems from a deep-seated insecurity and lack of self-esteem, possibly due to a trauma in childhood, which is often caused by a belittling and unaffectionate parent. The compensatory narc still has the same behavioural traits: the mask of confidence hiding a hollowness inside; the inability to love; the cycle of idolise-devalue-discard; the deflection, projection and gas lighting; but with my ex it was very subtle and I was not aware of it until the last few years of my marriage. My children were the catalysts. Children are difficult for narcissists, because the narc's inherent selfishness and their inability to love tends to make them resent their own children, who they see as sucking up all the attention. The narc mother also starts to resent the father, whose affection is now perceived to be split between mother and kids. Narcs tend to believe that love is a finite resource, and they want to hoard it for themselves. Prior to the kids I didn't suspect that my ex might be a narcissist. As I have often asked my therapist: 'what is the difference between a narcissist and a selfish prick?' and the answer is: 'Not much' just a definition in DSM which is too often banded about. It is an easy accusation to throw, and it is a dangerous one, because narcissists will never admit they have a problem and will certainly never sit still in front of a therapist or accept their diagnosis. It is therefore difficult to diagnose a narc and impossible to treat one. I often get asked how I managed to stay married for 20 years and not notice. My only answer is that during the early years of our marriage we were in the 'love-bomb' stage - just two of us together working and travelling. I was a constant and reliable source of supply to her, and she idolised me because of it. It was only when the kids arrived, and my supply started to dwindle as my affection was shared with my kids, that she started to devalue me, gaslight me, and then discard me. The difficulty after divorce is that I still have to have contact with my ex because we have kids. I have learned to ignore the constant vilification to our friends, and the constant accusations that everything leading up to the divorce and after was my fault. The only effective way to deal with her is Zero Contact, but that is impossible with kids, so I try to keep Minimal Contact, but that is so unfair on the kids. In the meantime my friends have to endure her constant vilification of me and her idolisation of her new partner. I feel sorry for the poor bastard, because the moment he stops giving her supply she will devalue him and discard him, and make him think it was all his fault.

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Something I've had from experience is that narcissistic people often use gas lighting as another form of abuse. It's hard to notice at the time but afterwards having it broken down to me made me a lot more aware and I'm hoping to be able to avoid this behaviour in the future - Posted from rhpmobile

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Gas lighting already been mentioned 😬 very helpful reading these answers - Posted from rhpmobile

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Speechless. No word's can express better from a father's point of view.Am sorry for your loss.Can only hope you get time with your kids. - Posted from rhpmobile

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    I fought for equal time with the kids and was granted it by the court, in spite of a 27 page affidavit from my ex listing all my faults and supposed shortcomings as a parent. It is now two years later and friends are now telling me how settled and happy the kids are.

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Describes my ex-wife to a tee, and I'm still contending with the fallout... The impact on my kids is especially difficult to bear. As they grow older I expect my kids will come to recognise the truth, but in the meantime I'm helpless to counter all of the unnecessary harm being done. Certainly, I've learned some lessons and I'll not be getting tangled up in that sort of mess ever again.

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    If narcissism is an extreme, altruism is the extreme opposite. If a narcissist can be described as someone who is inwardly and selfishly obsessed with oneself, and possibly (but not necessarily) at the expense of others. And if an altruist can be similarly described as someone who's outwardly and selflessly obsessed with helping others, and possibly (but not necessarily) at the expense of oneself. Flip the coin and ask, is it possible an altruist can be a selfish being? Selfish in the knowledge that self happiness can only be attained AFTER helping others? If the logic has merit, does it apply both ways? Is it possible a narcissist can be generous to others? Generous with the knowledge that self happiness can only be achieved AFTER number one is taken care of? An altruist shouldn't feel guilty about being selfish at the expense of others, nor should a narcissist feel self-neglected at the expense of helping others. It appears obvious that one can't be the opposite of oneself without satisfying the primary driver for self happiness first. To all the altruists out there, I salute you for your selfless acts. Treat yourself to a selfish indulgence. You owe it yourself. Trust me you'll enjoy it. To all the narcissists, you're selfish pricks who ought to put some of your charismatic and passionate efforts onto charitable causes or deeds that make a difference. You owe it to others. And trust me you'll find it immensely gratifying. As for the rest of you in betweeners (the majority basically), you can f**k right off. Is it fair to say you possess traces of narcissistic traits in varying degrees? . I doubt even few of you turned down well paying jobs to help others, unlike Medicins Sans Frontieres. You're fortunate to have found the right guilt-free balance in life. Equilibrium achieved. - Posted from rhpmobile

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    between being self-absorbed, often called a narcissist, and having narcissistic personality disorder, which is a mental illness. How to recognise them? They often set unrealistic goals, fantasise about unlimited power, richness or success accompanied with wide, fast mood swings. And yes, synchronicity65, they are competitive and threatened by others’ achievements, but easily hurt. Those are just few indicators of that mental disorder. Many professionals use the Narcissistic Personality Inventory, a list of 40 questions that measures the inclination. Parents who give too much praise should cut back, while those who don’t pay enough attention step up. They should't play love-hate game with their children's feelings as this is apparently how it sometimes starts. Meander, of course I do not mind :), many of the things you have mentioned are true but... In many cases empath (after a prolonged relationship with the narcissist and if they do not succeed with timely escape) becomes narcissist himself/herself as they often absorb the ways they despised and use those same tactics when in a new relationship. synchronicity65, "Love-bomb" with narcissist doesn't last 20 years, not even 1 They are hard to live with from the start. 2DarkBull "If the logic has merit, does it apply both ways?" No, it does not.

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    cat_n_the_hatter: I'll disagree with you about narcissists being difficult from the start. For me the love-bomb phase lasted for seven years or so, and survived in that state because we were living alone together, a long way from her parents, with nothing to triangulate. There are lots of people that have longterm relationships with narcissists before it starts to go wrong. You forget that narcissists are often charming and sociable - it is only when their supply is cut off that they become manipulative. I recommend Shahida Arabi's book: Becoming A Narcissist's Nightmare. She describes how one of the hardest things for survivors of narcissists is that survivors are usually high-functioning, competent, intelligent and successful people - narcissists need this - so it can be hard for the survivor to accept that they went for so long without noticing their partner's behaviour.

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    how self confidence is charming and irresistible. Narcissists may appear to have high self-esteem as they exaggerate their talents in their quest for uniqueness, but the opposite is often true (though not all of them are insecure with very low self-esteem). Meander, you laugh and cry, feel joy and anger like the rest of us. In my belief, you are one well adjusted individual.(Ms)

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Incredibly interesting, thats to all for sharing.

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Thanks to everybody for sharing,it has been very enlightening. There are some very wise and emotionally intelligent people here. Darkbull: I disagree as I don't think it is as black and white as you opine. I believe that there are so many shades of grey that we function in, and there is so much that we don't know. I think with the science of Neuro plasticity we will see some amazing revelations in our life time. Cheers

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    it's important to clarify here that people can have narcissistic traits, and be quite narcissistic, but not have any mental illness (i.e. Narcissistic Personality Disorder). Unfortunately the media and society in general have picked up on NPD and run with it, hence we have people armchair diagnosing others with NPD left, right and centre, when in many of those cases it's unlikely the person would truly fit a NPD diagnosis, which is an extreme case. I think in many people's minds the word narcissist has actually become synonymous with having a mental illness, however someone can be a narcissistic arsehole without necessarily having any mental illness at all (true in the majority of cases would be my guess). This is another unfortunate example of the media picking up mental health terms and turning them into popular buzzwords, which are then used inappropriately by the wider community. (note that I'm not saying this is what the OP has done here as the post doesn't mention NPD at all, mine is just a general comment).

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