M45
Politics in sports
September 30 2017
Comments
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couplecourious
8 years ago
Its a fine line for musicians to tread. Can be very hit and miss, However i feel that as individuals, if we are not prepared to be political, then we should just be content to let the world pass by.Musicians, sporstpeople shouldnt be excluded. Be respectful, speak up have your say. Always.
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RHP User
8 years ago
" It's understandable that sports administrators and company executives wish to use their personal status and the authority of their organisation to convince the public of the righteousness of political positions they either believe in themselves or which they think will benefit their business. But as they engage in such activities they need to consider whether any short-term gains they derive, either because they've signalled their virtue or increased their company's profits, is worth the long-term cost of making the organisation a creature of partisan politics." 'No escape from the self-righteous' John Roskam Australian Financial Review 29SEP17
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RHP User
8 years ago
🙌🏆🏉🎉 Go, Crows! 🎉🏈🏆🙌 (Sorry. As you were 😘) - Posted from rhpmobile
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HotNightsGC
8 years ago
Politics shouldn't be a part of sport. It's just taking a really great thing and ruining it. Just my take on it. - Posted from rhpmobile
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tylannister
8 years ago
Look at Jesse Owen's victories in the 1936 Berlin Olympics, or the Black Power Salute during the 1968 Olympics (with Peter Norman in solidarity with Tommie Smith and John Carlos). Sport was used repeatedly to isolate South Africa during the Apartheid era. Ping-pong was used to open relations between China and West in the early 1970's. Look at what is happening in the US right now - Black protesters are criticized for violent protests against police brutality. So, instead, Colin Kaepernick chose a non-violent form of protest instead. And now he and other athletes are being criticized for doing that. It seems like it's not whether the protest is violent or not that people care about. It's that certain parts of the population just don't want to see the protest.
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RHP User
8 years ago
Kathy Freeman flew the aboriginal flag at the 2000 olympics. Which i aggreed with. Tho the song that is being sung at some football game "same love" i dont aggree with - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
8 years ago
Kathy Freeman flew the aboriginal flag at the 2000 olympics. Which i aggreed with. Tho the song that is being sung at some football game "same love" i dont aggree with - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
8 years ago
Politics has long been a part of sport and music, particularly the latter. To be honest I'm pretty surprised that people going to a reggae concert wouldn't realise there would most likely be political messages....reggae is well known for its history of lyrics commenting on social and political issues. If you don't want to hear any political stuff then you should probably stick to seeing people like Ed Sheeran, Katy Perry, Taylor Swift, those sort of singers. As for Macklemore performing Same Love at the NRL grand final....it's funny how the conservatives haven't batted an eye at all of the other 'political' songs that have been performed at grand finals over the years (including songs by The Village People, The Living End, even Tom Jones singing his anthem about killing his GF), but are totally losing their shit over this one
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RHP User
8 years ago
It's worthwhile to note music (and art more generally) may be considered a mode of communication; it's not merely about the aesthetic. Further, music artists are not obliged to perform within the framework of a governing body (as is the case with the professional sporting organisations). This is not to suggest sport is merely about aesthetics. Far from it. Musical performers are more free to act according to their conscience and personal preference. Their individual commercial success or failure is more independently determined by their audience (as paying market consumers). This is not the case in the sporting codes. I think John Roskam's article simply highlights the idea that partisanship on the part of sports' governing bodies (and other businesses too) bears certain longer term risks. Commercial competition dictates conditions whereby enterprises can seldom afford to alienate clients (and/or potential clients) in any proportion. This being the case, the safest course is to not be drawn on potentially divisive matters. Alternatively, they would need to very carefully manage their involvement to ensure balance. This itself is problematic because it distracts management attention from their core business. Would people be as accepting of a situation whereby a sporting body engaged in religious proselytisation, or do you suppose there would be calls to "stick to their knitting"?
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bonefide
8 years ago
Politics is like yelling at kids at sporting games it's not on or welcome.
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RHP User
8 years ago
Quoting 'Luck_Dragon' Politics has long been a part of sport and music, particularly the latter. To be honest I'm pretty surprised that people going to a reggae concert wouldn't realise there would most likely be political messages....reggae is well known for its history of lyrics commenting on social and political issues. If you don't want to hear any political stuff then you should probably stick to seeing people like Ed Sheeran, Katy Perry, Taylor Swift, those sort of singers. As for Macklemore performing Same Love at the NRL grand final....it's funny how the conservatives haven't batted an eye at all of the other 'political' songs that have been performed at grand finals over the years (including songs by The Village People, The Living End, even Tom Jones singing his anthem about killing his GF), but are totally losing their shit over this one Is that previously the musicians have been chosen on popularity or who they could get at the right price (or wrong price), and they well have had political messages in their songs, but most people would not have known and just enjoyed the music / entertainment as it was. I may be wrong but I suspect this musician and song were chosen specifically for a political agenda, which I do not agree with. He could have sung any other hit song, so I believe it was orchestrated. No problem if they had arranged for him to sing on national TV as part of the Yes campaign, but not to force it down the throats of every day Aussies out to enjoy the footy and entertainment. Maybe I am too cynical though and it was purely coincidental
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RHP User
8 years ago
Is the discussion of how we govern ourselves if we ignore it, it will go away and then where would we be ? North Korea ? I'm taking my young teens to Midnight Oil, for the music sure but also to demonstrate the power of ideas and words. Can you seriously say the sports boycotts of apartheid South Africa were a waste of time ? Morality can't be compartmentalised, you live it or you lose it.
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RHP User
8 years ago
Quoting 'Sailbadthesinner'Can you seriously say the sports boycotts of apartheid South Africa were a waste of time ? Morality can't be compartmentalised, you live it or you lose it. did preventing South African football players and cricketers from playing really change the policy? I detest the politics of certain countries but I'm friends with the competitors from their countries, my politics is not the politics of my political leaders (I never held Tony Abbott's views, for instance). did the Australian equestrian teams boycotting one of the Games really accomplish anything except prevent the competitors from attending a potentially once in a lifetime opportunity while making zero difference? I don't think players striking over pay demands should be considered within the "politics". You could say the same about anyone striking over pay - "I just wanted my garbage collected, I don't care about the garbo guys pay, I just want my bin emptied on a Wednesday". How did the fans pay to see the game, if the players were on strike? Just because you _want_ to throw some money at someone and watch them perform, does not make them obliged to accept your offer and perform.
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Tara72
8 years ago
If he had been invited to last years grand final and sung his biggest hit then, no one would have batted an eyelid. Even if his presence and song choice were deliberate (which I doubt, given the extensive lead time needed to tee such things up) then it is the purpose of art (any art) to hold a mirror up to life, and this issue is dominating Australian life right now.
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RHP User
8 years ago
Quoting 'S_OnTheLoose' Quoting 'Sailbadthesinner'Can you seriously say the sports boycotts of apartheid South Africa were a waste of time ? Morality can't be compartmentalised, you live it or you lose it. did preventing South African football players and cricketers from playing really change the policy? I detest the politics of certain countries but I'm friends with the competitors from their countries... Australia playing Syria for football/soccer World Cup qualification? FIFA's website carries a story titled 'Syria and Australia share the spoils' (a title I find somewhat ironic in light of a book I read a little while back*). Syria was to have been banned from contention in the 2018 World Cup but for the intervention of Malaysia. (The team has been banned from playing on home soil since the outbreak of war. Malaysia has hosted Syria's games. What's Mohamed Bin Hammam up to nowadays?) * 'The Ugly Game', Heidi Blake & Jonathan Calvert (ISBN 9781471149351)
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RHP User
8 years ago
"...A highly placed source inside the heavily fortified Gonski 3.0 HQ has told us that their work had been going quite well in proposing several previously unrecognised educational reforms with immense scope for spending money for no return. For instance, a particularly worthwhile project has been spending new Gonski money on the elimination of all forms of competition in school sports. This work is based on the ground-breaking reform of the junior football league in Melbourne that has abolished scoring at matches when one team is doing better than its heart-broken opponent. It is felt that this might be the beginning of a successful joint project by both government and opposition to end the inequality that there is in all sporting contests. As our patron Senator Wong said just the other day 'You have no idea how offensive the marking of scores can be to parents of pupils who are not sportingly inclined.'..." 'Brown Study', Neil Brown, The Spectator Australia, 19AUG17 (Mr Brown's column is often an entertaining read).
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RHP User
8 years ago
My son went through Auskick and is now in year 7, for the first few years probably up to about year 4 I'd say not scoring is not such a bad thing, after that forget it, the kids know it's bullshit and keep their own score, so do the parents and everyone else.The effort should be getting kids into sport, not making existing sport meaningless.
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RHP User
8 years ago
On Channel Nine's Sports Sunday program today, there was further discussion of the Hannah Mouncey situation (M to F transgender footballer seeking entry to the AFLW). Liz Ellis and Neil Breen argue Mouncey should be permitted to play in the women's league. Breen cites the IOC's rule on transgender competition (which specifies a competitor's testosterone level must be below 10nmol/L) as basis for his belief Mouncey should play. On 22OCT17, Breen was reported to have said, "Let's face facts, she's out because she's six foot two and 100 kilos... If she was five foot two and 68 kilos, she'd be in." (Ref 1). I'll come to the matter of the IOC testosterone cut-off level shortly, but first I think it worth considering and testing the questions over gender and sports performance from another perspective... What of the issue of female athletes with elevated testosterone levels? (Hyperandrogenism) Beyond Caster Semenya, there are other elite female athletes diagnosed with Hyperandrogenism. In 2014, female Indian sprinter Dutee Chand was suspended from competition by the IAAF (International Association of Athletic Federations) and subsequently missed the Commonwealth Games and the Asian Games. In 2015, the CAS (Court for Arbitration in Sports) suspended the rule (thereby overruling the IAAF ban), saying "the IAAF had failed to prove that women with naturally high levels of testosterone had a competitive edge." (Ref 2) The CAS gave the IAAF until July 2017 to present new scientific evidence in support of its case, and an IOC statement has apparently urged the IAAF and others to go back to the CAS with arguments in favour of reinstating the rule. "The IAAF argued that testosterone is the most important boost to athletic performance, but the court stated that unless it could prove an average performance gap of 10 to 12 percent between male and female runners, there was not "sufficient evidence about the degree of the advantage." (Emphasis in original quote). (Ref 3) Over the intervening period, the search for such evidence has been on... Roll forward to the IAAF Press Release of 03JUL17 (Ref 4) for news that a study has been published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine (Ref 5) which contains some interesting details, though this study is believed insufficient (by Prof Ross Tucker (Ref 6)) to overturn the CAS ruling. Now, back to the matter of the 10nmol/L testosterone cut-off level specified by the IOC. Transgender athletes are required to return test results below 10nmol/L for twelve months prior to commencing competition. Achieving that level (by means of hormone therapy) takes time; perhaps one to two years. Males normally test at approximately 35nmol/L, whilst females normally test at less than 3nmol/L. The study cited at Ref 5 contains a couple of results tables, excerpts of which are as follows: Table 1 concerns female athletes. It identifies median T levels of 0.55 to 0.73 nmol/L (with a min/max range of 0.42 to 0.99 nmol/L). Table 2 concerns male athletes. It identifies median T levels of 12.4 to 17.6 nmol/L (with a min/max range of 9.8 to 22.0 nmol/L). This study also states: "female athletes with high testosterone levels benefit from a 1.8% to 4.5% competitive advantage over other female competitors with normal androgen levels." I have not yet found precisely the testosterone test results of either Caster Semenya or Dutee Chand, and would be curious to know how close they may be to the 10nmol/L threshhold. Prima Facie, it would appear the 10nmol/L cut-off level, whilst less than one third the normal testosterone level for male athletes, remains vastly higher than (at approximately ten times the) normal testosterone levels found in elite female athletes. So, aside from the height and weight advantage noted by Neil Breen, this still begs question as to whether Hannah Mouncey continues to enjoy a distinct performance advantage over current AFLW players (albeit at Mouncey's greatly reduced level of testosterone). Any scientists willing and able to weigh in on this matter? (@SOTL, @scienceisgolden, does this touch on any of your knowledgebase?) Ref 1 - 'AFL called out over decision to deny transgender player Hannay (sic) Mouncey shot at AFLW draft', Ch9 Wide World of Sports website, Stuart Honeysett, 14 days ago (22OCT17). Ref 2 - 'IOC rules transgender athletes can take part in Olympics without surgery', Associated Press, The Guardian (Australian Edition), 25JAN16. Ref 3 - 'Here's What The 2018 Olympic Gender Regulations Look Like', Grace Carr, The Daily Caller, 7/3/2017. Ref 4 - 'Levelling the playing field in female sport: New research published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine', Press Release, IAAF, 03JUL17. Ref 5 - Bermon S, Garnier P-Y, Br J Sports Med 2017; 0:1-7, doi:10.1136/bjsports-2017-097792. Ref 6 - 'Advantage IAAF or CAS?' Prof Ross Tucker, Sunday Times, 10JUL17.
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RHP User
8 years ago
During the same program this morning, Liz Ellis mentioned she had played sport with and against girls of similar stature to Hannah Mouncey. Whilst Liz's sporting achievements are rightly commended (and I don't want to put too fine a point on it, but), it is significant to bear in mind Netball is ostensibly a non-contact sport!
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RHP User
8 years ago
...we can only hope that Donald Trump would be the first player on the court!
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RHP User
8 years ago
ontology - if you read Ross Tucker's work, I'd suggest going back a year or two and the Science of Sport interview and series specifically on intersex issues in sport, it was very interesting, and does go into more depth on the Dutee Chand case and the angle of the case that was presented to the CAS. The testosterone levels allowed are pretty generous, they're drastically higher than even the upper ranges for women with PCOS (and PCOS like symptoms). Even at those lower levels the testosterone boost that goes along with PCOS would seem to be measurable - I coach elite level women in my sport, the number with PCOS is MUCH higher than the norm. If they can't find a significant advantage from higher testosterone levels, then why are they banning exogenous testosterone as a performance enhancing drug? I haven't really followed the Mauncey case, but I think the testosterone limitation should be enforced. If they don't want the testosterone limitation but do want intersex competitors to be allowed, then for a professional/prestigious competition they must enforce test limits otherwise change the tournament to a mixed gender competition and accept it becomes the B-grade pro cup to the 'mens' major Professionals event afterwards.
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RHP User
8 years ago
I have now read much (though not yet all) of Prof Tucker's material on the Science of Sport site. His interview/Q&A with Joanna Harper is particularly interesting (for the perspective of Joanna Harper as a scientist, an athlete, and as a transgender person involved with the IOC on such matters). I did not watch the '60 Minutes' report/interview last night, but did later read an article on the Channel Nine website which stated Hannah Mouncey has tested for testosterone at just 0.05nmol/L. There was no mention of any proposal for ongoing testing at intervals were Mouncey (or any other transgender player) to be accepted into the league. This is significant in light of Caster Semanya's and Joanna Harper's observed changes in performance as testosterone levels change (and in light of Mouncey having stated no intention of undergoing surgery in pursuit of full sex change).
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