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sweetgem

sweetgem

F47

Prenuptial agreement

July 07 2013

I'm sure we all know this term and the purpose of its existence. This term is often used and heard of in the upper class society (where the multi-million people live) especially in the celebrity world. However, some middle class people have also started drawing prenuptial agreement prior to getting married in order to protect their hard earned assets, in case their marriage didn't work out later down the track. Scenario: Say a woman has established her own business and works 15 hours a day and 8 days a week. After several years of extreme hard work and striving, the woman becomes successful and has earned her first bucket of gold. Then the woman meets a man and they are compatible with each other on most levels (well nobody is perfect, so there is always a small gap of ideal), so she decides to marry the man and settles down. But the woman is concerned (in the back of her mind) that what if her marriage didn't work out and that she would need to have a divorce, she doesn't want to split everything (including the assets she owned before she got married that weren't contributed by her hubby) into two halves and share them with her husband in the divorce process. Therefore, she thinks of entering into a prenuptial agreement with her fiancé before they tide the knot, so that whatever assets she earns before her marriage continues to be hers, and whatever assets that she and hubby earn together would be split into two halves. As a woman, I can understand and accept the necessity of having the prenuptial agreement, because no money or asset is easily earned, so one must do something to protect their assets which are earned by blood and sweat. My question is, is prenuptial agreement a relationship deal breaker in the middle class society? Gents - how would you react or take the scenario if your fiancée asked you to sign a prenuptial agreement? Would you be offended and cancel the wedding or could you understand and accepting? Ladies - if you had a bucket of hard earned gold, would you want to draw a prenuptial agreement to protect your assets that were earned before you got married? I know this topic has a serious tone and may not be many RHP people's cup of tea to discuss, but I am interested to learn of others' thoughts on this. Therefore, please kindly move on if you didn't like this topic. Thank you for your respect :-)- Posted from rhpmobile

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Comments

  • RHP

    RHP User

    13 years ago

    There are laws protecting ones per-marital assets. "All things being equal" "If possible" but not "In any event", it may be "A reasonable request" to draw up an agreement with regard to asset dispersal of both parties, should the occasion arise at some future time..For those facing legal wrangles, familiarize those quotations above.

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    13 years ago

    I'd never live with someone without at least a cohabitation agreement. It's the smart thing to do, and I'm certainly glad my ex and I had one. Not having one would be the deal breaker for me.

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    13 years ago

    I know buggerall about family law, thank christ, but I venture a couple of comments.First, it tends, I think, to be more often rich men wanting to be sure that they kept their money if they split from the woman they love. Think about that last sentence. Was there ever any love there? What does it all say about perceptions of the roles of men and women?The easy answer is that if you love someone, and if you believe in the 'till death do us part' principle, then you would not be thinking about the possibility of a divorce. (I know, it happens, my marriage blew up and I never wanted it to.) I find it a little creepy that when you are deeply in love - those first fine wild electric times when you cannot keep your hands off each other, when you ring them ten times a day, sniff your wrist cos their perfume got on there - you are coldly thinking about the cheque account and who will get the house at Byron. Second, if someone has put together some assets and then married someone, the chance of the second person putting together a pile during the marriage is lessened a little - when they were alone they could do the 20 hour day thing, but when you are married the marriage and its consequences tends to take up a lot of time. Especially once kids come along.Third, if you love someone now at the very least you should want to ensure that even if it did blow up they would have a reasonable asset base. Having said that, family law litigation is horrific. I avoided it, because my ex and I were reasonable and respected each other, but the pain and brutality in some family law litigation is beyond reasonable expectation. So if you can avoid that with a reasonable prenup, then why not?My view, after all of this, is that if you are drafting a prenup you are not assuming a lifelong happy marriage. If that is the case, maybe you should both find someone else. Or just sit alone and masturbate.

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    13 years ago

    Should it ever happen again. What's mine is his.   It is only STUFF after all.   I've lost my STUFF twice already in this life time. Believe me when i say it's not the worst thing that can happen to you.

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    13 years ago

    Yeh, it is only stuff, and your answer is correct, except where it comes to children. We were lucky, we did a fair, reasonable and loving deal, but it was still terrible for our child. It would have been beyond pain if we had been forced to litigate about custody, access, all those horrible words.

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    13 years ago

    and what is hers is hers. Her family and herself worked so hard to provide them with some sort of stability thst who am I to take it from her or vice versa. Unfortunately I've seen love die and marriages end prematurely from many friends for the silliest of reasons, and so what I've learnt is you cannot rely or be naive that your love for each other will last. What we earnt together gets split, but what she had before me and me before her we keep ourselves- Posted from rhpmobile

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  • Lifes_great

    Lifes_great

    13 years ago

    Quoting 'karynb' Should it ever happen again. What's mine is his.   It is only STUFF after all.   I've lost my STUFF twice already in this life time. Believe me when i say it's not the worst thing that can happen to you.If you're gonna get screwed....then that's just the person they are...they'll just screw you in some other manner. In saying that I would have no issue being asked to sign a pre-nup.

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    13 years ago

    I think you should , I think everybody should. People spent so much money on a wedding and are to stingy to go to a lawyer and write a prenuptial. When you see the statistics of marriage breakups u can only do a prenuptial. Also when someone loves you he/she should understand.Everything u bring into the marriage is your, everything you both accomplish in the marriage belongs to both, everything you inherit is yours, everything what he inherits is his.. I think that's fair.Just a peace of warning, you don't have to marry to be taken to the cleaners ask the males, just living together for a while can do that.Smart thing to do, but even a prenup is not total safety.

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    13 years ago

    I definitely think an agreement should be drawn up if you decide to live with someone or get married. No-one goes into these situations thinking its going to end but having an agreement protects both parties in case that happens. Also on the topic of agreements to protect your assets - do you have a Will? As gloomy as that sounds I cannot stress enough the importance of having a Will so that your assets go to the people you want it to go to. Unfortunately the 'The family will know what to do or is right' attitude does not always happen in reality. Ms NC2147- Posted from rhpmobile

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    13 years ago

    It's not a deal breaker at all, it's common sense. I actually suggested to an ex that she should protect herself just for her own peace of mind because She had substantially more than me at the time. She didn't bother, nor did I try to screw her over either. So it worked out ok

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    13 years ago

    Same for either gender.. If you bust your guts and become healthy wealthy on your ownsome , no one deserves to tear that apart because of a failed relationship. If BOTH contributed to the wealth, that's different.. divide the spoils and get on with your own life. If you have children to that relationship both have a responsibility to provide for their well being. Im sure any thinking person would realize their responsibility and contribute more if they have more.Any wealth gathered before a relationship began , is just that' theirs. This is where a pre nup is essential to protect your income from some greedy gold digger looking for a free ride.. Man or Woman.Wealth acured before a relationship began, should be exempt.

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    13 years ago

    As I am on round 3 already of long term partners in my life, life has taught me a few lessons. I would not even move into a defacto relationship without protecting my own assets. Pre-nup all the way, would not get serious without one now ;)

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    13 years ago

    However prenups in Australia are hardly worth the paper they are written on. The laws vary in Australia from State to State but they are nowhere near as binding as they are say in the UK or USA   But let me share my story regarding defacto.   People are under the illusion that defactos have the same rights as married spouses and they do to some degree but trust me after the lesson of the last two years Ive learned, that the only way you are ever really protected (especially here in WA) is to be legally married   I met a man and after 9 months moved with him and shared HIS home for three years. The house was in HIS name and so were all the utilitiy bills. Although I recorded my address/mail as being his address to say I was living there, we did not share anything legal, not even a bank account (all seperate) and this is where I came unstuck   I did not pay rent to him ( I thought I didnt have to being in a defacto relationship) but paid half the utilities naturally (in cash) and paid for food, going out and when he was renovating various rooms of his home, contributing to that - buying paint, accessories etc as I considere this "our home" . During the time that we were together we went on two holidays overseas - I paid for both - of which I was happy to do. All transactions between us were always made in cash - we never argued over it and I trusted him completely - why wouldnt I ? , I was in love.   We split after 3 years. Sadly a bitter split but no children or property involved so I thought, well that was that. I was soooo wrong   4 months after we split - he hit me with a civil suite, claiming 3 years of unpaid rent, unpaid utilities, damage to his property etc. After two years of mucking around and the fact that I refused to settle out of court, due to the lies in his suite we went to trial two weeks ago and I lost and now have to pay him 10 grand (max penalty) plus 6 percent interest. And why did I lose ? simple. I could not PROVE that we were in a defacto relationship. He claimed in his papers and testified under Oath, that I was a lodger in his house and that we had the occassional sexual relationship. That when we went overseas he offered and paid me his share of the expenses ( a lie) and I had no paperwork to refute any of his claims.   Even though I had friends testify on my behalf that we were in a fully fledged defacto relationship - I could not PROVE that legally we were (no not even my mail being sent to his address was enough) - the only proof that the magistrate would accept is that we had a joint bank account and that the utilites/ or his mortgage was in joint names. Its not what you know, its what you can PROVE.   Am I angry ? you bet. My only satsifaction is that Im currently on sickness benefits and he will be paid at $5.70 week until the debt is cleared or in the event of my death, he has a first claim against my estate.   Although the magistrate (female) empathised with me, the bottom line was that I couldnt prove (legally) that we were in a defacto relationship. It was his word against mine. The thing that hurts the most, was, that he did deny our relationship of three years under Oath. I shook my head at him when he was up on the stand lying and now all I can do is warn others.   I would never just move in with anyone (male or female) again based on my experience. I would as Mesmerised said get a cohabitation agreement drawn up no matter what the situation was. Yes this takes the romance out of everything and thats fine, cause now this court case has left me distrusting, stressed, angry and sadly suspicious of all .   The only person in this world thats ever really gonna take care of you, is you. Do what you have to do.

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    13 years ago

    Signing a co-habitation agreement or pre-nup doesn't mean you are forecasting or setting up the relationship for failure.   IMO many that have been through the grind of asset division previously (some more than once) will have some hesitation about getting into a new long term relationship again. I know many men and women that have made a conscious decision to never enter a long term relationship/defacto/marriage again because of the fear of reliving the pain of break up and being taken for a monetary/asset ride.   First time newly weds don't seem to think its much of an issue when they are caught up in all the hype of weddings and "happily ever afters".   There are many people who will be living long lonely lives too scared of making commitments to others again and settling for FWB or FB friendships as a form of self preservation.   Signing a piece of paper just means that the couple can move on and let their relationship blossom with the knowledge that their partner wants to be with them and not for what they have.   A Will can always be drawn up to distribute property and assets how you wish to include not only your partner but extended family and others too.   It's good to have a choice that may give someone peace of mind when contemplating a relationship commitment.   SFxx     PS. Not all is fair in love and war!

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    13 years ago

    My husband and I never went through the legal process either but preferred to discuss custody and division of assets reasonably and equitably ourselves. We were able to spare our kids the heartache of watching their parents at each other's throats or fighting it out in the legal system. The STUFF i speak of losing was a total loss, not a division of assets, and it happened in a fire. It has taught me that I am not my STUFF - so i say, STUFF is transient at best and can all be taken away in the blink of an eye. Don't be too attached to it, it does not define who you are.....unless you let it. Quoting 'kingoftheroad'Yeh, it is only stuff, and your answer is correct, except where it comes to children. We were lucky, we did a fair, reasonable and loving deal, but it was still terrible for our child. It would have been beyond pain if we had been forced to litigate about custody, access, all those horrible words.

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  • Smilingwithfun

    Smilingwithfun

    13 years ago

    A pre-nup is probably about protecting your kids inheritance. depends on your view of that. A thought- If we take some of the above thoughts that having a pre-nup means you are thinking the relationship won't last, then if you don't have a will you won't die?

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    13 years ago

    due to a recent case a lot of lawyers are now refusing to do prenups. Even though this couple had a prenup, due to a technicality in the writing of it , it was ruled invalid and in this case the lawyer was also sued. Its similar to a Binding Financial agreement which is done upon separation when you agree on the splitting of assets and property without having to go to court. Recently separated my ex and I agreed but it took 6 weeks and 4 lawyers to find someone to sign it off all because of this Prenuptial case that went belly up lawyers just don't want to touch them anymore

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  • BrightBubbly

    BrightBubbly

    12 years ago

    I am sitting here shaking my head in disgust at your post...He sounds like a real charmer !!!Doesn't it make you wonder how those that you love and who loved you can honestly do something like that to you ? Lying under oath is huge. Did he have the gall to look you in the eye when he did it ?

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    12 years ago

    We don't really know how to love. Instead we mitigate, and we wonder why divorce rates are sky high.- Posted from rhpmobile

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    12 years ago

    I am a bit of a romantic at heart strangely enough and so I find it hard to even imagine wanting a prenup as I would wonder what it said to me and to her about where I think the relationship will be going. However on the other hand, being all but bankrupted last year by the whole family law process and an ex-wife who just decided she wanted me left penniless, I can see some wisdom in a prenup. At least I would have been left with something more than a few knives, forks, tables and chairs. I am probably going to have to ponder this on and off for a while before I come to any kind of conclusion. But if its love, all bets are off. When I fall for someone I tend to fall pretty completely so I am guessing when the time comes I may not even think of it.

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    12 years ago

    Quoting 'BrightBubbly' I am sitting here shaking my head in disgust at your post... He sounds like a real charmer !!! Doesn't it make you wonder how those that you love and who loved you can honestly do something like that to you ? Lying under oath is huge. Did he have the gall to look you in the eye when he did it ? Yes he did have the gall to look me in the eye as he lied under Oath and I think thats why it hurt so much , to deny a relationship of three years for financial gain, for what ? a whole 10 grand - that was what I was sold out for. I hope he enjoys it. This action though says more about his character than anything. As for the legal system - well apparently I had a fair trial but as someone said to me after , the best lies is what wins a court case. I tend to agree with this persons summation. The reason for my post though was not for sympathy (as Im sure you know) but simply to warn others. I believed that I had the same rights of a married spouse, being defacto as this is what is sold to the Australian public. I was very wrong. My advice to those contemplating living together and not marrying is very simple. Get it ALL DOWN ( a cohabitation agreement - whose house your living in and the terms and conditions , how will bills be divided and paid , get a property report prior to moving in etc) in writing right from the word go and keep receipts for everything. That person whom your so madly in love with now, well they may not be the same person in 3-5 years. (Maybe you wont be either) Just protect yourself (and also your lover) in all ways, that is all You never know anyones true character until your breaking up with them We do know how to love, but it has become a world of mitigation and litigation with every problem we encounter. You dont like something or someone , or a situation , so you sue. Apparently, many people are of the belief that money and the accumulation of it will make them happy. I pity them.

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    12 years ago

    My heart breaks for you. That is an awful story and I'm sad it happened to you. I can only imagine the stress it has caused you. If it means anything I'm send all my positive vibes your way. xxxKarynB, I agree with you completely. It's just stuff. I lost my stuff too to a gambler. I can't imagine any kind of pre nup can protect your assets from that. I have the kids with me so I have everything I need.

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  • RHP

    RHP User

    12 years ago

    ....there are a million ways you can loose your "Stuff" that no prenup could save you from. It's a humbling experience and a liberating experience, if you let it be.....or it could be the worst experience of your life if you choose to make it such. I know which you chose beautiful lady Quoting 'paintme' My heart breaks for you. That is an awful story and I'm sad it happened to you. I can only imagine the stress it has caused you. If it means anything I'm send all my positive vibes your way. xxx KarynB, I agree with you completely. It's just stuff. I lost my stuff too to a gambler. I can't imagine any kind of pre nup can protect your assets from that. I have the kids with me so I have everything I need.

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  • N4November

    N4November

    12 years ago

    I have been living with my guy now for 1 1/2 years and as it nears 2 years, I'm actually in the process of getting a prenup signed. #next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; } We live in my house with a very small mortgage. I have worked my ass off the last 20 years and it comes down to protecting my assets in the interest of my children. This house is their/our financial security. In good times and in bad. No man will compromise that.He know's it and fully supports where I'm coming from. If for some reason he decided not to sign it before the anniversary of 2 years comes around, I will be asking him to vacate our home while we negotiate what the issues are. It could be a deal breaker if he decides not to sign. It may be only a document of intent, but it does show a magistrate what our ideas were should be separate under common law later in the relationship. But I am quietly confident that it's not my house/assets/etc he is after. He gets to curl up to the girls everynight and live with a nymphomaniac!!

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