F62
Serena Williams & Naomi Osaka
September 10 2018
Comments
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RHP User
7 years ago
I just cant accept Serenas apology. It was far too little, far too late after she exhibited some of the worst of sportsmanship on court. Serena was being broken by a competitor who had skills which were superior on the day... yet she acted entitled, aggressive, offensive, bullying, and deserved what the official gave her.... after... he had warned her. She completely denied what SHOULD have been a magnificent triumph for her fellow competitor....... another woman. The most tasteless part was that she blamed sexism, she cited motherhood in her defence, and she incited the crowd to her cause...... if thats how she feels feminism should be displayed..... she totally failed the other female on the court. Maybe if other officials exercised their powers adequately when challenged, as this official did, there would be less of this poor behaviour by anyone on court. 2c
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RHP User
7 years ago
......Mischeviouslad. She feigns that she is a good person but in reality she is a bully and a control freak. You could see her loosing grip as she berated the chair umpire. Her hysterics completely took away any of the deserved attention for her opponent. The same hysterics when she was asked to provide a sample for doping control. The same hysterics she has displayed on numerous occasions in the past. A great tennis player but an unpleasant human.
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countrytouch82
7 years ago
She was playing another woman not a man. If the umpire ignored the code violations or made decisions for the benefit of Serena, would he then have been sexist towards Naomi? Maybe he could have also have been racist too! Sounds like Serena would use the same excuses to try and get out of a speeding ticket from a police officer. A funny cartoon in a paper I read showed the umpire having a quiet word to Naomi asking if she can just let her win :p - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
7 years ago
I get Serenas claim of unfair treatment, ABC News website this morning listed some very poor behavior from Nick Kyrgios and others against said same umpire that went unpunished. Racquet abuse is a huge no-no I believe though. Being a mother does not automatically make you pure of spirit either, that was outright emotional blackmail. I can see where she is coming from, but she did look petulant by the same token. Poor Naomi Osaka I say - should have been the best moment of her life and there she was, in tears at the debacle that it was. Serena had best hold off any travel pans to Japan for a bit. Like a decade or so.
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jbradley79
7 years ago
You are kidding right. She ruined the greatest day of a young girls life. It was made to be all about her and not the winner - Posted from rhpmobile
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time4us4play
7 years ago
Got beaten fair and square. She simply doesn’t like loosing, so makes a big scene to take the cameras away from Naomi. Her apology was the most insincere thing I have ever seen. Grow up Serena, you got beaten. Just accept it gracefully. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
7 years ago
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RHP User
7 years ago
So what are people’s thoughts on Mark Knights cartoon? Racist? Personally I don’t see it?
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RHP User
7 years ago
Well yesterday, I was calling her Vanessa and had to update my thread before pushing post when I realised, lol. I don't normally pay attention to tennis, I'm not the sportsy type physically or mentally. It was just the drama playing out on the court that caught my attention. That's how much I know about Serena Williams before yesterday, and then the stories in my feed where I learned to my horror of the booing during the ceremony. Regardless of the points losses due to the coaching drama and fallout, Naomi Osaka obviously earned her win and that was a shameful way for the crowd to treat her. I am glad that Serena stood in and spoke up but I would consider she Had to do that to retain dignity. Hubby tells me today that the coaching was obvious to see and I'd have to be far more naive than I am these days to suppose there was not some system in place between them. I can't in all good conscious agree that it is an ok thing to do, whether or not other people get away with it (and the behaviour) in other circumstances. This was a Grand Slam and worthy of the highest attention to detail. I still try to believe the best in people and that is where the heart of my OP came from but I posted because I wanted a more rounded opinion from people who have a far better sense of the people and the game. Peachy, thanks heaps for opinions on the topic that I have yet to reply to, I just wanted to get out my thoughts as they had updated today PS: apologies if the font is too large for anyone, size 3 font is at special request
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RHP User
7 years ago
Quoting 'Snap_Dragon' AgreeQuoting 'OkeyDoke45' I get Serenas claim of unfair treatment, ABC News website this morning listed some very poor behavior from Nick Kyrgios and others against said same umpire that went unpunished. Racquet abuse is a huge no-no I believe though. Being a mother does not automatically make you pure of spirit either, that was outright emotional blackmail. I can see where she is coming from, but she did look petulant by the same token. It does seem that there is a pretty big issue with inconsistent umpire calls in tennis, how much of that might be due to sexism I can't really say because the only examples I know of are the ones that have been coming out in the last couple of days and obviously those have been picked to support various points of view. Seems that coaching during matches is very common and is rarely penalised by umpires, or if it is they will give a 'soft warning', not go straight to a violation as the umpire did in this case. I agree that Serena behaved poorly and she does have a history of questionable behaviour when things aren't going her way during matches. The racket abuse and verbal abuse of lines judges and umpires is not on, and that goes for all the other players that engage in that behaviour. It seems to be very common in tennis and I think it needs to be reigned in across the board. Even if sexism and racism weren't factors in the decisions during that particular match though, they have reared their ugly heads many times during Serena's career and this no doubt influences how she responds to certain situations. Even in the backlash she is receiving now there is a lot of very sexist and racist rubbish being thrown her way. I've never seen a male player described as 'hysterical' even for the most over the top tantrums (John McEnroe anyone?), and that's the mildest of the examples. Mark Knight's cartoon for the Herald Sun was really gross and obviously channelling the old Jim Crow caricatures of black people from the 19th century. I am doing my best to share complicated thoughts here and think you and I have a basis of agreement from my quick study of the overall situation particularly helped by hubby's point of view here at home (him being a long time follower of the sport) Frankly he got a bit heated on the topic tonight, lol. Wait, I'll just ask him about John McEnroe... I remember him. Hubby says you can't compare the era, Nick Kyrgios is a better example. After a bit of talk to define cos he knows I am writing this here, he reckons he's not fond of American's in the game for their attitude male or female, (but he used arrogant as a description for the William's sisters and petulant for McEnroe and Kyrgios). His highest standard is Roger Federer and he claims you could pretty much ask that of anyone. The cartoon... I saw it and had that teeny todo with my favourite man about it until he calmed down a little to get that there was a balance to the picture (that he hasn't seen) that even I could get with the faceless, pale coloured Naomi off in the background and Naomi in her tutu taking up the foreground on the left. Shame. I agree with you about the inconsistent umpiring. The lack of a soft warning is the stickler for me here. As an outsider so to speak. I agree with you about the possibility of the build up of emotion over time too, I thought she showed a lot of control I couldn't imagine myself having. I hope RHP allows this offshoot that is part of the overall topic in question as to whether Williams was judged evenly and fairly, and how the public views the whole situation then and now. Peachy
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RHP User
7 years ago
I've just looked at the cartoon again and to be honest, one of the beautiful things about this moment that a huge amount seem to have missed, including me, is the beauty of how Naomi Osaka maintained her composure to go on and win! She never got involved outside her focus... Naomi'll be someone I remember in the years to come. Peachy
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countrytouch82
7 years ago
Cartooning... I saw a caricature of a black woman throwing a tantrum. Caricatures are always going to exaggerate existing physical features, if you want to consider the many caricatures of politicians etc. Simply put, there is little way you can draw such cartoon caricature of a black person without appearing to be racist to some. If the cartoon didn't have a dark face and it was a cartoon of another well built female with similar facial features throwing a tantrum, nothing would have been even thought of. - Posted from rhpmobile
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countrytouch82
7 years ago
Nick Kyrgios' cartoons are also dark skinned and deformed and exaggerated according to his obvious features. I think the greater point people are trying to make, is that his (or any such) cartoons are ignorant of actual racist cartoons through history. The end game I guess would be to simply not draw them (people of certain races) at all, except exactly as they are, but that would defeat the whole purpose of it being a caricature/cartoon. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
7 years ago
..It seems it's not desirable for female athletes to be muscular. Desirable to men. An opinion shared by men and women. When they are, they are often derided and likened to primates. Muscular male athletes are likened to Greek figures of myth. It says a lot.
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RHP User
7 years ago
There is a stereotype that black women are irrational, etc. Really? Hand on my heart I’ve never heard that before! If you say women in general, than yes, some still promote this idea.
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RHP User
7 years ago
The main problem I have with criticisms of the cartoon are that I actually think it looks like her ... If it's a likeness, I'm not sure you can call it racist .. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
7 years ago
I remember the armchair critics saying the same thing about Amelie Mauresmo...the Frenchwoman....remember her?She was muscly too, and that was all they wanted to talk about her.Even Martina Hingis slagged her off.I thought she was hot.
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AnnieWhichway
7 years ago
If Serena squirts......
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RHP User
7 years ago
It's been a couple of busy days here at home which has given me the chance to find news stories online, hear opinions from the footy show, and see memes on Facebook. Haha, and here I am hours later since I first wrote that. And now, a few more hours later in the continued interest of a worthy reponse... The meme I saw today is something I touched on earlier about how Naomi Osaka earned her win. She was gracious and focused. and If that is your yard stick, she won by a mile in every way. No excuses. The Backpage's, Kelli Underwood shared the fact that this is the 6th time Williams has behaved in a similar way when she was losing. Just saying, hubby took that as gospel. The story I read by Louisa Thomas for the The New Yorker was a beautiful one to read that placed the focus where it was deserved while giving a heart warming back story as well as supplying some great details to take into account. Stuff that even surprised hubby about Federer. Mischevious, I agree with the idea that umpiring needs to be across the board. But it's not, and in a taut moment as this was and I'm not trying to defend it but as I understand it, there was no 'soft' warning as there often is in high stakes matches. The news story I read mentions that Ramos is a pedant "who has a history of nit picky, controversial calls. I kind of feel like this was the perfect storm and I think Ms Osaka rose above it which we both also agree on. Countrytouch, I believe the idea of sexism is in comparison to the standards men are held up to. Though I've heard since that the numbers have apparently been broken down to show a fair discrepancy in favour of women. I'm not sure if that's because women are the fairer sex. We're agreed about the descriptive words Snap_D, you tie into something I noticed about hubby, (who knows exactly what I posted about that in an earlier post above lol). The cartoon I can agree supports stereotypes rather than individuals. The pedantic umpire 'Ramos' is a brown haired, pink cheeked Englishman? Naomi, besides the stupid ponytail that should only be blonde at the end... the winner, is meekly looking up at him. I don't support the behaviour either, only seek to deeper understand it. A comment by Ramos after the match... "The umpire at the centre of the US Open women's final controversy has spoken in his native Portugal - andwill be back in action at this weekend's Davis Cup semi-finalsbetween the US and Croatia."I'm fine, given the circumstances," Carlos Ramos told Tribuna Expresso in Portugal."It's a delicate situation, but a la carte arbitration does not exist. Do not worry about me!" I'm just going to say, I kinda wasn't... A last thing, a comment on an article in the Sydney Morning Herald. " While the head of the US Tennis Association, Katrina Adams, said that both Williams and Ramos bore some responsibility for a situation that spiralled out of control, she believes there is a double standard at play when it comes to how male and female tennis players are treated." Cheers, Peachy, posting size 3 font for those who size matters...
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RHP User
7 years ago
Serena finally showed her true colors in that match, she now has a baby and thinks she has to prove to the world that she will be as big after this birth as she was before. The Japanese girl shafted Serena, and just watch her, and some other the other up coming faces of the game take over. That cartoon in the newspaper was not Racist, Sexist or otherwise, it was typical of what any cartoonist would have done a few years ago, BEFORE all the DOO GOODERS came along and try telling us what we can do and cannot do, or say, and i am old school myself, and i will always say it as i see it, and stuff all those who want to think otherwise.
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RHP User
7 years ago
"Girls can win by winning in their own hierarchy—by being good at what girls value, as girls. They can add to this victory by winning in the boys’ hierarchy. Boys, however, can win only by winning in the male hierarchy. They will lose status, among girls and boys, by being good at what girls value." Jordan Peterson I was just reading a review of Jordan Petersons new book, and I thought this quote from it was relevant.He's referring to a study of the behaviour of boys and girls.
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RHP User
7 years ago
There are men who have gone through a sex change who now run as women, that situation drives hubby crazy because it is so unfair. A quick google informs me... "men have a rigid pelvis that helps them to run faster than women". In general though, I can see the point made but there again, it is not that easy for women when there can be a lot of resistance to them by the men whose place in the world they upset. Peachy, simple thoughts
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